This was imprecise—I meant that collapses were catastrophes for the civilizations involved, and current collapses would also be catastrophes, one which I agree would be significantly worse if they impacted humanity’s longer term trajectory. And yes, some collapses may have been net benefits—though I think the collapse of early agricultural societies did set those societies back, and were catastrophes for them—we just think that the direction of those societies was bad, so we’re unperturbed that they collapsed. The same would be said of the once-impending collapse of the antebellum South in the US, where economics was going to destroy their economy, i.e. slavery. But despite the simplicity of the cause, slavery, I will greatly simplify the political dynamics leading to the outbreak of the civil war and say that they started a war to protect their culture instead of allowing the North to supplant them. This seems like a clear civilizational catastrophe, with some large moral benefits from ending slavery.
I think that unlike the Antebelllum south, and early exploitative agricultural societies, the collapse of Rome was also a collapse that hurt civilization’s medium-term trajectory, despite taking quite a long time. And I’m hoping the ongoing collapse of the post-WWII international order isn’t a similar devolution.
This was imprecise—I meant that collapses were catastrophes for the civilizations involved, and current collapses would also be catastrophes, one which I agree would be significantly worse if they impacted humanity’s longer term trajectory. And yes, some collapses may have been net benefits—though I think the collapse of early agricultural societies did set those societies back, and were catastrophes for them—we just think that the direction of those societies was bad, so we’re unperturbed that they collapsed. The same would be said of the once-impending collapse of the antebellum South in the US, where economics was going to destroy their economy, i.e. slavery. But despite the simplicity of the cause, slavery, I will greatly simplify the political dynamics leading to the outbreak of the civil war and say that they started a war to protect their culture instead of allowing the North to supplant them. This seems like a clear civilizational catastrophe, with some large moral benefits from ending slavery.
I think that unlike the Antebelllum south, and early exploitative agricultural societies, the collapse of Rome was also a collapse that hurt civilization’s medium-term trajectory, despite taking quite a long time. And I’m hoping the ongoing collapse of the post-WWII international order isn’t a similar devolution.