Downvoted because I don’t feel like there’s any substance here and it’s not worth spending the time to read. I think most people already agree with this sentiment and know the arguments presented in one way or another, so it feels like this post is just flashing the applause lights.
I’d probably have at least not downvoted and maybe would have upvoted this post if it contained some new content, like a proposal for how to get people not to glorify looks.
There’s no reason a person can’t be both earnest and still be hitting the applause light button. Intent matters, but so does outcomes.
I don’t recall recent EA discussion of this topic, but this is an extremely well-worn topic in general. This is sort of a professionalism 101 topic that most people debate in high school as something of a toy topic because the arguments are already well explored.
In isolation I agree. But I found nothing new or interesting in this post. Since votes control how visible a post is, I view votes as purely a signal about how much I want to see and how much I want others to see content like this. Since I didn’t find it new or interested it was a poor use of my time to read it, hence the down vote.
When I down vote I like to tell people why so they have useful feedback on what makes people down vote.
I know many people vote to say “yay” or “boo”. I disagree with this voting style, and my votes generally should not be interpreted that way. I down vote to say “I don’t think you should bother reading this” and I up vote to say “I think you should read this”.
I also think even if most people already agree, there are some people haven’t thought about the subject of this post and may change their behaviour after having read it. I have seen a few examples of this on Twitter and in person before.
I disagree that this is an applause light, since an opposing claim like “communities are better when they have more jokes as long as these don’t make people feel unwelcome” is pretty reasonable too. And including a proposal for how to change the norm seems like a bad bar, since posting on the EA Forum is probably the first plank that would occur to me in a plan to change the norms.
Good point. I agree that it’s important to have steps to mitigate this!
Happy to discuss in the comments ways in which we could try to reduce this. Here is my current best guess: 1. Not making jokes about finding someone attractive, and if you do this, try to recognize this and prevent your self doing it next time! 2. Noticing if other people do it and call them out! They might not realise they are doing this (feel free to reference this article). 3. Hold all people to high levels of epistemic rigor.
Downvoted because I don’t feel like there’s any substance here and it’s not worth spending the time to read. I think most people already agree with this sentiment and know the arguments presented in one way or another, so it feels like this post is just flashing the applause lights.
I’d probably have at least not downvoted and maybe would have upvoted this post if it contained some new content, like a proposal for how to get people not to glorify looks.
I disagree—I haven’t seen any discussion of this, and the arguments come off as earnest and not as applause lights.
There’s no reason a person can’t be both earnest and still be hitting the applause light button. Intent matters, but so does outcomes.
I don’t recall recent EA discussion of this topic, but this is an extremely well-worn topic in general. This is sort of a professionalism 101 topic that most people debate in high school as something of a toy topic because the arguments are already well explored.
Almost everything that gets posted on the Forum has already been explored somewhere else. That doesn’t make it worth downvoting.
In isolation I agree. But I found nothing new or interesting in this post. Since votes control how visible a post is, I view votes as purely a signal about how much I want to see and how much I want others to see content like this. Since I didn’t find it new or interested it was a poor use of my time to read it, hence the down vote.
When I down vote I like to tell people why so they have useful feedback on what makes people down vote.
I know many people vote to say “yay” or “boo”. I disagree with this voting style, and my votes generally should not be interpreted that way. I down vote to say “I don’t think you should bother reading this” and I up vote to say “I think you should read this”.
I think just writing a post can lead to some of the changes you want to see.
One example being the “It’s really really hard to get hired by an EA organisation”. Having that exist and be spread amongst people was able to start changing expectations that people had.
I also think even if most people already agree, there are some people haven’t thought about the subject of this post and may change their behaviour after having read it. I have seen a few examples of this on Twitter and in person before.
I agree, but is this a post that will make that change? I don’t see any really compelling arguments or stories here that are likely to change minds.
One person has already commented saying they will change how they act.
Wonderful! A great way to be proven wrong!
I disagree that this is an applause light, since an opposing claim like “communities are better when they have more jokes as long as these don’t make people feel unwelcome” is pretty reasonable too. And including a proposal for how to change the norm seems like a bad bar, since posting on the EA Forum is probably the first plank that would occur to me in a plan to change the norms.
Further evidence that it’s not an applause light: vast majority of respondents to this Twitter poll about the subject say the jokes have not crossed a line: https://twitter.com/nathanpmyoung/status/1557811908555804674?s=21&t=wdOUd5m4d_ZqiJ-12TLM9Q
Good point. I agree that it’s important to have steps to mitigate this!
Happy to discuss in the comments ways in which we could try to reduce this. Here is my current best guess:
1. Not making jokes about finding someone attractive, and if you do this, try to recognize this and prevent your self doing it next time!
2. Noticing if other people do it and call them out! They might not realise they are doing this (feel free to reference this article).
3. Hold all people to high levels of epistemic rigor.