So I like this idea, but I think the exclusively suffering-focused viewpoint is misguided. In particular: ”In a Type III Wisdom civilization, nothing and no one has to experience suffering at all, whether human, non-human animal, or sentient AI”
^this would be achieved if we had a “society” entirely of sentient AI that were always at hedonic neutral. Such lives would involve experiencing zero sense of joy, wonder, meaning, friendship, love, etc – just totally apathetic sensory of the outside world and meaningless pursuit of activity. It’s hard to imagine this would be the absolute pinnacle of civilizational existence.
Edit: to be clear, I’m not arguing “for” suffering (or that suffering is necessary for joy), just “for” pleasure in addition to the elimination of suffering.
I would agree that pleasure is important too, but I think I’d place a higher disvalue on suffering than I place value on pleasure. I definitely don’t think that a world without suffering would necessarily be a state of hedonic neutral, or result in meaninglessness. However, I would also be one to bite the bullet and say that a Melba toast world with general pleasantness but no true joy or wonder would be preferable to a world with widespread extreme suffering (at least on the scale it exists on today) if that was necessary. I’d also say the ideal version of a Type 3 wouldn’t have had to, since I would agree that pleasure doesn’t depend on suffering to exist. I think the strongest drawback would be the one mentioned in the comment below: the risk of forgetting suffering too soon. Empathy isn’t our strong point when it comes to that sort of thing. Thanks for the response!
“I definitely don’t think that a world without suffering would necessarily be a state of hedonic neutral, or result in meaninglessness”
Right, it wouldn’t necessary be natural – my point was your definition of Type III allowed for a neutral world, not that it required it. I think it makes more sense for the highest classification to be specifically for a very positive world, as opposed to something that could be anywhere from neutral to very positive.
So I like this idea, but I think the exclusively suffering-focused viewpoint is misguided. In particular:
”In a Type III Wisdom civilization, nothing and no one has to experience suffering at all, whether human, non-human animal, or sentient AI”
^this would be achieved if we had a “society” entirely of sentient AI that were always at hedonic neutral. Such lives would involve experiencing zero sense of joy, wonder, meaning, friendship, love, etc – just totally apathetic sensory of the outside world and meaningless pursuit of activity. It’s hard to imagine this would be the absolute pinnacle of civilizational existence.
Edit: to be clear, I’m not arguing “for” suffering (or that suffering is necessary for joy), just “for” pleasure in addition to the elimination of suffering.
I would agree that pleasure is important too, but I think I’d place a higher disvalue on suffering than I place value on pleasure. I definitely don’t think that a world without suffering would necessarily be a state of hedonic neutral, or result in meaninglessness. However, I would also be one to bite the bullet and say that a Melba toast world with general pleasantness but no true joy or wonder would be preferable to a world with widespread extreme suffering (at least on the scale it exists on today) if that was necessary. I’d also say the ideal version of a Type 3 wouldn’t have had to, since I would agree that pleasure doesn’t depend on suffering to exist. I think the strongest drawback would be the one mentioned in the comment below: the risk of forgetting suffering too soon. Empathy isn’t our strong point when it comes to that sort of thing. Thanks for the response!
“I definitely don’t think that a world without suffering would necessarily be a state of hedonic neutral, or result in meaninglessness”
Right, it wouldn’t necessary be natural – my point was your definition of Type III allowed for a neutral world, not that it required it. I think it makes more sense for the highest classification to be specifically for a very positive world, as opposed to something that could be anywhere from neutral to very positive.