I’m really happy to see this posted and to see more discussion on the topic.
However, I strongly disagree with him on what kinds of projects we should focus on. Most of his examples are of tools or infrastructure for other efforts. I think that as a community we should be even more ambitious—I think we should try to execute multiple tech-oriented R&D projects (not necessarily software-oriented) that can potentially have an unusually large direct impact.
This is a good point. My post had a specific frame in mind, of “Tech either for EAs or funded mostly by EAs”.
“Tech startups created by EAs” is a very different category, and I didn’t mean to argue that it should be less important. We’ve already seen several tech startups by EAs (FTX, Wave, as you mention); which is one reason why I was trying to draw attention on the other stuff. I’ve also been part of 3 EA startups earlier on that were more earning-to-give focused. (Guesstimate was one)
I didn’t mean to argue that “Tech either for EAs or funded mostly by EAs” were more important than “Tech startups by EAs”. The latter has been a big deal and probably will continue to be so, in large part because of opportunity costs (which I wrote about here).
funding situation in EA is currently very unfavorable to such efforts.
Most “Tech startups” already have an existing ecosystem of funding in the VC world. It’s unclear to me where and how EA Funders could best encourage these sorts of projects. I could picture there being a EA VC soon; there are starting to be more potential things to fund.
Thanks for clarifying Ozzie! (Just to be clear, this post is not an attack on you or on your position, both of which I highly appreciate :). Instead, I was trying to raise a related point, which seems extremely important to me and I was thinking about recently, and making sure the discussion doesn’t converge to a single point).
With regards to the funding situation, I agree that many tech projects could be funded via traditional VCs, but some might not be, especially those that are not expected to be very financially rewarding or very risky (a few examples that come to mind are the research units of the HMOs in Israel, tech benefitting people in the developing world [e.g. Sella’s teams at Google], basic research enabling applications later [e.g. research on mental health]). An EA VC which funds projects based mostly on expected impact might be a good idea to consider!
this post is not an attack on you or on your position
Thanks! I didn’t mean to say it was, just was clarifying my position.
An EA VC which funds projects based mostly on expected impact might be a good idea to consider
Now that I think about it, the situation might be further along than you might expect. I think I’ve heard about small “EA-adjacent” VCs starting in the last few years.[1] There are definitely socially-good-focused VCs out there, like 50 Year VC.
Anthropic was recently funded for $124 Million as the first round. Dustin Moskovitz, Jaan Tallinn, and the Center for Emerging Risk Research all were funders (all longtermists). I assume this was done fairly altruistically.
I think Jaan has funded several altruistic EA projects; including ones that wouldn’t have made sense just on a financial level.
That’s great, thanks! I was aware of Anthropic, but not of the figures behind it.
Unfortunately, my impression is that most funding for such projects are around AI safety or longtermism (as I hinted in the post...). I might be wrong about this though, and I will poke around these links and names.
Relatedly, I would love see OPP/EA Funds fund (at least a seed round or equivalent) such projects, unrelated to AI safety and longtermism, or hear their arguments against that.
I’m really happy to see this posted and to see more discussion on the topic.
This is a good point. My post had a specific frame in mind, of “Tech either for EAs or funded mostly by EAs”.
“Tech startups created by EAs” is a very different category, and I didn’t mean to argue that it should be less important. We’ve already seen several tech startups by EAs (FTX, Wave, as you mention); which is one reason why I was trying to draw attention on the other stuff. I’ve also been part of 3 EA startups earlier on that were more earning-to-give focused. (Guesstimate was one)
I didn’t mean to argue that “Tech either for EAs or funded mostly by EAs” were more important than “Tech startups by EAs”. The latter has been a big deal and probably will continue to be so, in large part because of opportunity costs (which I wrote about here).
Most “Tech startups” already have an existing ecosystem of funding in the VC world. It’s unclear to me where and how EA Funders could best encourage these sorts of projects. I could picture there being a EA VC soon; there are starting to be more potential things to fund.
Thanks for clarifying Ozzie!
(Just to be clear, this post is not an attack on you or on your position, both of which I highly appreciate :). Instead, I was trying to raise a related point, which seems extremely important to me and I was thinking about recently, and making sure the discussion doesn’t converge to a single point).
With regards to the funding situation, I agree that many tech projects could be funded via traditional VCs, but some might not be, especially those that are not expected to be very financially rewarding or very risky (a few examples that come to mind are the research units of the HMOs in Israel, tech benefitting people in the developing world [e.g. Sella’s teams at Google], basic research enabling applications later [e.g. research on mental health]). An EA VC which funds projects based mostly on expected impact might be a good idea to consider!
Thanks! I didn’t mean to say it was, just was clarifying my position.
Now that I think about it, the situation might be further along than you might expect. I think I’ve heard about small “EA-adjacent” VCs starting in the last few years.[1] There are definitely socially-good-focused VCs out there, like 50 Year VC.
Anthropic was recently funded for $124 Million as the first round. Dustin Moskovitz, Jaan Tallinn, and the Center for Emerging Risk Research all were funders (all longtermists). I assume this was done fairly altruistically.
I think Jaan has funded several altruistic EA projects; including ones that wouldn’t have made sense just on a financial level.
https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/466959-97?fbclid=IwAR040xC65lCV0ZW68DOXwI7K_RkSzyr7ZJa9HBs7R7C4ZkFGM5sC1Lec9Wk#team
https://www.radiofreemobile.com/anthropic-open-ai-mission-impossible/?fbclid=IwAR3iC0B-EKFD40Hf7DXEedI_tzFgqypT7_Pf4jSiUhPeKbHq_xFawHc-rpA
[1]: Sorry for forgetting the 1-2 right names here.
That’s great, thanks!
I was aware of Anthropic, but not of the figures behind it.
Unfortunately, my impression is that most funding for such projects are around AI safety or longtermism (as I hinted in the post...). I might be wrong about this though, and I will poke around these links and names.
Relatedly, I would love see OPP/EA Funds fund (at least a seed round or equivalent) such projects, unrelated to AI safety and longtermism, or hear their arguments against that.