There are many different person-affecting views that can avoid treating ensuring people are born like saving lives, and are compatible with statements like “This is for our grandchildren”, although they may bring in their own counterintuitive issues. I would recommend the paper “The Asymmetry, Uncertainty, and the Long Term” by Teruji Thomas, in particular (although some parts are pretty technical, so maybe just watch the talk). Maybe also check out “Population Axiology” by Hilary Greaves for an overview of different theories, including person-affecting ones.
Also, if you think of saving lives as reducing the number of life years lost (to death), then preventing births saves lives. Minimizing total disability-adjusted life-years would be similar. This leads to an antinatalist position, though.
This is fantastic, thank you very much! I have never heard of person-affecting views, Thomas, or Greaves. I’m so glad that I haven’t stumbled on something novel and that there are formal philosophers who have written about this.
On reducing the number of life-years lost to death, I don’t personally think that’s a justifiable position, though I’d love to hear your thoughts. It is irrational to be less happy when given $500 and having $50 taken away than just being given $450 in the first place.
Though it’s not the same comparison, there hypothetically should be no difference between <3 lives existing and 1 death>, versus <only 2 lives existing from the start>. The reason we grieve that 1 death is because the person brought happiness to our lives that did not exist were we just 2 people. The world where only 2 lives existed from the start does not seem necessarily better, in my view, than a world where 3 lived and 1 died. Though at large numbers, I may adjust my preferences.
Do you have any personal conclusions that you’ve reached on this issue?
The procreation asymmetry is one of my strongest intuitions. Essentially, it’s never worse for an individual to never be born (for their own sake, since if they’re not born, nothing can matter to them), but it is worse if they are born and have a bad/miserable life. Furthermore, I don’t think additional good lives can make up for bad lives, so I believe in a hard asymmetry, and am an antinatalist. Thomas’s paper discusses soft asymmetries, according to which good lives can make up for bad lives, but there’s no point in adding more people (for their own sake, ignoring their effects on others) if the total welfare is guaranteed to be positive (or 0).
I’m also not sure that death is bad for the person who dies, since nothing can matter to them after they die, although, like with the procreation asymmetry, I think death can be better.
I’ve written about my views in my shortform, here, here and here. I’m roughly a negative prioritarian, close to a negative utilitarian, so I aim to minimize involuntary suffering.
There are many different person-affecting views that can avoid treating ensuring people are born like saving lives, and are compatible with statements like “This is for our grandchildren”, although they may bring in their own counterintuitive issues. I would recommend the paper “The Asymmetry, Uncertainty, and the Long Term” by Teruji Thomas, in particular (although some parts are pretty technical, so maybe just watch the talk). Maybe also check out “Population Axiology” by Hilary Greaves for an overview of different theories, including person-affecting ones.
Also, if you think of saving lives as reducing the number of life years lost (to death), then preventing births saves lives. Minimizing total disability-adjusted life-years would be similar. This leads to an antinatalist position, though.
Hello MichaelStJules,
This is fantastic, thank you very much! I have never heard of person-affecting views, Thomas, or Greaves. I’m so glad that I haven’t stumbled on something novel and that there are formal philosophers who have written about this.
On reducing the number of life-years lost to death, I don’t personally think that’s a justifiable position, though I’d love to hear your thoughts. It is irrational to be less happy when given $500 and having $50 taken away than just being given $450 in the first place.
Though it’s not the same comparison, there hypothetically should be no difference between <3 lives existing and 1 death>, versus <only 2 lives existing from the start>. The reason we grieve that 1 death is because the person brought happiness to our lives that did not exist were we just 2 people. The world where only 2 lives existed from the start does not seem necessarily better, in my view, than a world where 3 lived and 1 died. Though at large numbers, I may adjust my preferences.
Do you have any personal conclusions that you’ve reached on this issue?
The procreation asymmetry is one of my strongest intuitions. Essentially, it’s never worse for an individual to never be born (for their own sake, since if they’re not born, nothing can matter to them), but it is worse if they are born and have a bad/miserable life. Furthermore, I don’t think additional good lives can make up for bad lives, so I believe in a hard asymmetry, and am an antinatalist. Thomas’s paper discusses soft asymmetries, according to which good lives can make up for bad lives, but there’s no point in adding more people (for their own sake, ignoring their effects on others) if the total welfare is guaranteed to be positive (or 0).
I’m also not sure that death is bad for the person who dies, since nothing can matter to them after they die, although, like with the procreation asymmetry, I think death can be better.
I’ve written about my views in my shortform, here, here and here. I’m roughly a negative prioritarian, close to a negative utilitarian, so I aim to minimize involuntary suffering.