Could you also mention some of the negatives? It is very Chinese to write a review that only mentions the positive aspects.
I have a few suspicions of negative aspects of the Schwarzman program, but these are from my friends/contacts rather than from my own personal experience. Rather than repeating what I’ve heard from my own network, I’d like to ask what you think the downsides and the bad parts of this program are.
Thanks for the comment Joseph! I’m really curious what the downsides or bad parts you’ve heard of are (if you’re open to sharing them ). Would be happy to share my takes on whether those reported downsides resonate with my own experience and those of my friends.
Like Kevin outlined, I think categorising some of the features (e.g. lack of academic rigour) of the programme as strengths or weaknesses is tough because it very much depends on how someone sees the programme fitting into their larger career trajectory.
One plausible downside that we tried to capture in the post is that Schwarzman can be used for a variety of purposes, so there are ceilings on how far you can optimise for any one element. ”...you will get exposure to a little bit of business, policy, international relations, and China studies, and that if you just want to specialize in one of these things, it’s potentially better to do a more specialized program.” (What other programs do those applying for Schwarzman Scholars consider?)
But in my personal experience, this wasn’t really a downside. I wasn’t really sure if I wanted to fully optimise for community-building, something related to alternative proteins or China studies, and during Schwarzman I had the flexibility to test my fit across these domains in different ways.
Another plausible downside (if language immersion is your goal) is that language study is not a huge (enforced) part of the programme. You are only required to take language classes for the first module. And while you can take language classes throughout the year, they are only offered twice a week. That said, some of my friends took class at one level and audited classes at a one level higher, while also supplementing that with extra classes outside of Schwarzman. Chinese teachers are also available pretty much everyday over lunch for you to chat and practice your Chinese. So, by default language immersion is not a strength of the programme but if learning the language is a priority for you, it’s possible to make decent progress (e.g. a friend went from knowing no Chinese at the start of the programme, to somewhere between HSK 4 and 5 a year later, which I think is something like upper intermediate level). If language learning is your only goal though, then Schwarzman is likely not the right programme. We’ve attached a spreadsheet with some potential language intensives that might be a better fit for someone with a pure language learning goal.
Finally, would echo Kevin’s point about logistics of getting into the country being tough, but would add that my sense is that logistics of getting into the country are decently challenging for any foreigner at this point.
Sure, I’ll share what I’ve heard and what I suspect. Each of these this is either second-hand or conjecture about how the Schwarzman program functions. I don’t have any personal experience of the program. I also think that as an American I am probably setting American universities as my default of comparison.
General China stuff
My first thought is broad and general, applying to all academic programs in China: academic programs in China are often poorly managed (at the administrative/management level) and of low quality. Does the Schwarzman program fall into this trend?
There are also general risks of being in China. COVID has been scary and challenging, most foreign students have left, and my impression is that most of them had their scholarship stopped. Many Chinese universities locked students on campus (or booted them off campus) at various times during 2020 or 2021. I haven’t heard how Schwarzman handled the various waves of COVID lockdowns that Beijing has gone through.
Programs for foreign students in China often tend to be very insular and disconnected from the rest of the campus. It is common for 4 or 6 or 8 Chinese students share a dormitory room, while foreign students often are perceived as getting special treatment when they have only 1 or 2 students in a room. A lot of foreign students in China mainly interact with other foreign students, with occasional cultural excursions. My guess is that the Schwarzman program is a bit more integrated within the program, but that there is relatively little interaction with people outside Schwarzman.
Are foreign students at Schwarzman able to open a bank account and use WeChat Pay, Alipay, and similar apps in China? I imagine that life in China would be quite a bit harder if you aren’t able to use all the conveniences that come with mobile payments. Are foreign students able to get a Health Kit?
Learning Chinese language at universities in China tends to follow a very “traditional” model of language learning, in which a group of students works their way through a textbook with plenty of not-very-useful words, and in which a lot of class time is spent on the teacher speaking a sentence and the students all repeating it slowly. How were the Chinese language classes?
Academic freedom
Academic freedom is an issue at pretty much every institution in China. There are simply some topics which are considered sensitive in China that you can’t talk about, study, or discuss.
Students at Schwarzman didn’t like Donald Trump, but Stephen A. Schwarzman liked Donald Trump a lot, and the staff ask students to not voice anti-Trump opinions while they were part of the Schwarzman program. I understand that it is kind of rude to accept someone’s money and then insult their politics, but the institutional response (of just telling students they shouldn’t express opinions that run counter to the funder) strikes me as fairly poor.
On poor quality of academic management: I think most people don’t go to Schwarzman to focus on academics, but that said some people like Jason (whose quote is in the post) can get a fair bit out of the academics. I don’t have experience in American unis or in non-Schwarzman Chinese unis, but my impression is that academic management is better than average Chinese unis and maybe slightly worse than at American unis. This largely comes from the programme having to fulfil somewhat onerous university requirements but Schwarzman students are shielded from a lot of it.
On Schwarzman’s handling of the lockdowns: we were subject to city and uni-level restrictions like everyone else, and there were about two months where we weren’t allowed to leave campus earlier this year. Tsinghua campus is pretty huge though, so we had access to multiple convenience stores, a host of canteens and bunch of sports fields. The lockdown was difficult for those who had medical emergencies because once you left campus you could not return, this led to some friends leaving the programme early. Schwarzman admin was fairly accommodating in helping folks leave campus earlier for personal or health reasons.
On Schwarzman-Tsinghua interaction: by default you’ll interact with Tsinghua students less because classes, meals and many events are within Schwarzman College itself. There is a perception that Schwarzman is a bit of a bubble. All that said, it’s possible to get plugged into broader Tsinghua life; some friends audited Tsinghua classes, and joined Tsinghua clubs.
On foreigners getting bank accounts and relevant apps: programme helps you set up a bank account and you can get all the relevant apps.
On quality of language instruction: doesn’t sound like the language instruction you describe. Focuses a fair bit on speaking practice—you are tasked with watching videos and completing homework before class, and during class you essentially review the vocab and sentence structures from the video. Generally classes are small enough that you can get some speaking practice in but you need to put in a lot of extra effort to improve your language skills seriously during the year, the classes are far from enough.
Academic freedom
Academic freedom: within classes and in college I think pretty much anything goes. Whether your friends want to discuss certain topics because they find them sensitive is another matter but people talked about all sorts of things the past year. For thesis titles, yes, there is some censorship I’ve heard of, where students were told to change wording of their theses. That said, I know of friends who did fairly controversial topics for their theses (e.g. stuff on Xinjiang). I’m not super sure where exactly the lines are.
What you can and can’t say vis-a-vis Schwarzman’s politics: the programme isn’t a huge fan of having to deal with blowback in the media, and in that vein they are against people leaking confidential communications or writing anything very controversial in the press whilst associating themselves with the programme. People have still done it though, so it’s more a matter of how much one weighs the risk of souring relations with programme administration.
I’m not really sure how to answer this question because I think it’s rather difficult to identify unequivocally “positive” and “negative” aspects of this program (or of any program in particular, really). My take is that there are only aspects of the program that may be more or less suitable for EAs who are considering the program, and that we’ve done our best to articulate some of the reasons why any particular EA may or may not want to pursue the Schwarzman vs. other educational opportunities (see the What other programs do those applying for Schwarzman Scholars consider? and What are some reasons I might not want to apply for the Schwarzman Scholars program? sections).
For example, we write in the Personal and Professional Development section that classes are rather introductory in nature, and that this leaves time for independent development opportunities. Some people may not be attracted by this aspect of the program (e.g. if they’ve studied China or international relations extensively as an undergraduate, or if they appreciate more guidance and less independent exploration in a graduate program), but others may find that these are precisely the aspects of the program that they find appealing (e.g. if you did not study these topics as an undergraduate and want an introduction to them, or if want to conduct a lot of independent research).
The only truly bad aspect of the program that I can point to off the top of my head (@Saad may have more to add since I’m still relatively new to the program) is that logistics of getting to China have been a nightmare and highly stressful. I’m a U.S. citizen, and dealing with the visa application process, Chinese quarantine requirements, and flight shortages have not been fun—though this does not seem specific to the program in particular.
Could you also mention some of the negatives? It is very Chinese to write a review that only mentions the positive aspects.
I have a few suspicions of negative aspects of the Schwarzman program, but these are from my friends/contacts rather than from my own personal experience. Rather than repeating what I’ve heard from my own network, I’d like to ask what you think the downsides and the bad parts of this program are.
Thanks for the comment Joseph! I’m really curious what the downsides or bad parts you’ve heard of are (if you’re open to sharing them ). Would be happy to share my takes on whether those reported downsides resonate with my own experience and those of my friends.
Like Kevin outlined, I think categorising some of the features (e.g. lack of academic rigour) of the programme as strengths or weaknesses is tough because it very much depends on how someone sees the programme fitting into their larger career trajectory.
One plausible downside that we tried to capture in the post is that Schwarzman can be used for a variety of purposes, so there are ceilings on how far you can optimise for any one element. ”...you will get exposure to a little bit of business, policy, international relations, and China studies, and that if you just want to specialize in one of these things, it’s potentially better to do a more specialized program.” (What other programs do those applying for Schwarzman Scholars consider?)
But in my personal experience, this wasn’t really a downside. I wasn’t really sure if I wanted to fully optimise for community-building, something related to alternative proteins or China studies, and during Schwarzman I had the flexibility to test my fit across these domains in different ways.
Another plausible downside (if language immersion is your goal) is that language study is not a huge (enforced) part of the programme. You are only required to take language classes for the first module. And while you can take language classes throughout the year, they are only offered twice a week. That said, some of my friends took class at one level and audited classes at a one level higher, while also supplementing that with extra classes outside of Schwarzman. Chinese teachers are also available pretty much everyday over lunch for you to chat and practice your Chinese. So, by default language immersion is not a strength of the programme but if learning the language is a priority for you, it’s possible to make decent progress (e.g. a friend went from knowing no Chinese at the start of the programme, to somewhere between HSK 4 and 5 a year later, which I think is something like upper intermediate level). If language learning is your only goal though, then Schwarzman is likely not the right programme. We’ve attached a spreadsheet with some potential language intensives that might be a better fit for someone with a pure language learning goal.
Finally, would echo Kevin’s point about logistics of getting into the country being tough, but would add that my sense is that logistics of getting into the country are decently challenging for any foreigner at this point.
Sure, I’ll share what I’ve heard and what I suspect. Each of these this is either second-hand or conjecture about how the Schwarzman program functions. I don’t have any personal experience of the program. I also think that as an American I am probably setting American universities as my default of comparison.
General China stuff
My first thought is broad and general, applying to all academic programs in China: academic programs in China are often poorly managed (at the administrative/management level) and of low quality. Does the Schwarzman program fall into this trend?
There are also general risks of being in China. COVID has been scary and challenging, most foreign students have left, and my impression is that most of them had their scholarship stopped. Many Chinese universities locked students on campus (or booted them off campus) at various times during 2020 or 2021. I haven’t heard how Schwarzman handled the various waves of COVID lockdowns that Beijing has gone through.
Programs for foreign students in China often tend to be very insular and disconnected from the rest of the campus. It is common for 4 or 6 or 8 Chinese students share a dormitory room, while foreign students often are perceived as getting special treatment when they have only 1 or 2 students in a room. A lot of foreign students in China mainly interact with other foreign students, with occasional cultural excursions. My guess is that the Schwarzman program is a bit more integrated within the program, but that there is relatively little interaction with people outside Schwarzman.
Are foreign students at Schwarzman able to open a bank account and use WeChat Pay, Alipay, and similar apps in China? I imagine that life in China would be quite a bit harder if you aren’t able to use all the conveniences that come with mobile payments. Are foreign students able to get a Health Kit?
Learning Chinese language at universities in China tends to follow a very “traditional” model of language learning, in which a group of students works their way through a textbook with plenty of not-very-useful words, and in which a lot of class time is spent on the teacher speaking a sentence and the students all repeating it slowly. How were the Chinese language classes?
Academic freedom
Academic freedom is an issue at pretty much every institution in China. There are simply some topics which are considered sensitive in China that you can’t talk about, study, or discuss.
Students at Schwarzman didn’t like Donald Trump, but Stephen A. Schwarzman liked Donald Trump a lot, and the staff ask students to not voice anti-Trump opinions while they were part of the Schwarzman program. I understand that it is kind of rude to accept someone’s money and then insult their politics, but the institutional response (of just telling students they shouldn’t express opinions that run counter to the funder) strikes me as fairly poor.
Thanks for sharing these impressions Joseph!
General China stuff
On poor quality of academic management: I think most people don’t go to Schwarzman to focus on academics, but that said some people like Jason (whose quote is in the post) can get a fair bit out of the academics. I don’t have experience in American unis or in non-Schwarzman Chinese unis, but my impression is that academic management is better than average Chinese unis and maybe slightly worse than at American unis. This largely comes from the programme having to fulfil somewhat onerous university requirements but Schwarzman students are shielded from a lot of it.
On Schwarzman’s handling of the lockdowns: we were subject to city and uni-level restrictions like everyone else, and there were about two months where we weren’t allowed to leave campus earlier this year. Tsinghua campus is pretty huge though, so we had access to multiple convenience stores, a host of canteens and bunch of sports fields. The lockdown was difficult for those who had medical emergencies because once you left campus you could not return, this led to some friends leaving the programme early. Schwarzman admin was fairly accommodating in helping folks leave campus earlier for personal or health reasons.
On Schwarzman-Tsinghua interaction: by default you’ll interact with Tsinghua students less because classes, meals and many events are within Schwarzman College itself. There is a perception that Schwarzman is a bit of a bubble. All that said, it’s possible to get plugged into broader Tsinghua life; some friends audited Tsinghua classes, and joined Tsinghua clubs.
On foreigners getting bank accounts and relevant apps: programme helps you set up a bank account and you can get all the relevant apps.
On quality of language instruction: doesn’t sound like the language instruction you describe. Focuses a fair bit on speaking practice—you are tasked with watching videos and completing homework before class, and during class you essentially review the vocab and sentence structures from the video. Generally classes are small enough that you can get some speaking practice in but you need to put in a lot of extra effort to improve your language skills seriously during the year, the classes are far from enough.
Academic freedom
Academic freedom: within classes and in college I think pretty much anything goes. Whether your friends want to discuss certain topics because they find them sensitive is another matter but people talked about all sorts of things the past year. For thesis titles, yes, there is some censorship I’ve heard of, where students were told to change wording of their theses. That said, I know of friends who did fairly controversial topics for their theses (e.g. stuff on Xinjiang). I’m not super sure where exactly the lines are.
What you can and can’t say vis-a-vis Schwarzman’s politics: the programme isn’t a huge fan of having to deal with blowback in the media, and in that vein they are against people leaking confidential communications or writing anything very controversial in the press whilst associating themselves with the programme. People have still done it though, so it’s more a matter of how much one weighs the risk of souring relations with programme administration.
Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I really appreciate that you gave thoughtful responses. :)
I’m not really sure how to answer this question because I think it’s rather difficult to identify unequivocally “positive” and “negative” aspects of this program (or of any program in particular, really). My take is that there are only aspects of the program that may be more or less suitable for EAs who are considering the program, and that we’ve done our best to articulate some of the reasons why any particular EA may or may not want to pursue the Schwarzman vs. other educational opportunities (see the What other programs do those applying for Schwarzman Scholars consider? and What are some reasons I might not want to apply for the Schwarzman Scholars program? sections).
For example, we write in the Personal and Professional Development section that classes are rather introductory in nature, and that this leaves time for independent development opportunities. Some people may not be attracted by this aspect of the program (e.g. if they’ve studied China or international relations extensively as an undergraduate, or if they appreciate more guidance and less independent exploration in a graduate program), but others may find that these are precisely the aspects of the program that they find appealing (e.g. if you did not study these topics as an undergraduate and want an introduction to them, or if want to conduct a lot of independent research).
The only truly bad aspect of the program that I can point to off the top of my head (@Saad may have more to add since I’m still relatively new to the program) is that logistics of getting to China have been a nightmare and highly stressful. I’m a U.S. citizen, and dealing with the visa application process, Chinese quarantine requirements, and flight shortages have not been fun—though this does not seem specific to the program in particular.