I think we lack clear evidence to conclude that, though. I can just as easily believe the story, given what we’ve seen, that EAF users are more likely to downvote anything criticizing EA (just as LW users are more likely to downvote anything that goes against the standard interpretation of LW rationality). I’d be very interested to know if there are posts that both criticize something EA in a cogent way as this post does and don’t receive large numbers of downvotes.
Also, don’t forget many posts that have pro-EA results are about equally well reasoned as what we see here, but receive overwhelmingly positive votes, even if they receive criticism in the comments. So the question remains, why downvote this post when we respond to it and not downvote other posts when we criticize them?
I’d be very interested to know if there are posts that both criticize something EA in a cogent way as this post does and don’t receive large numbers of downvotes.
My article criticizing the EA Funds last year were both more cogent than this post, and the recipient of a much greater number of upvotes, than Ben’s here. I do in fact think it is the case here that this post is receiving downvotes because of the factual errors with it. Yet neither is this entirely separate from the issue of people downvoting the post simply because they don’t like it as a criticism of EA. That people don’t like the post is confounded by the fact the reason they don’t like it could be because they think it’s very erroneous.
Another ex-GiveWell’s employee post criticizing GiveWell and the EA community was recently highly upvoted. See also Ben’s old post Effective Altruism is Self-Recommending, which is currently at +30 (a solid amount given that it was posted on the old forum, where karma totals were much lower).
I think the reason this post is at near 0 karma is because it is objectively wrong in multiple ways, and is of negative value. I would say this is clear if you engage with the comments here, on Ben’s blog, and Jeff Kaufman’s reply.
I actually interpret the voting on this post to be too positive. I think it is because EAs tend to be wary of downvoting criticisms that might be good. Ben’s previous reputation for worthwhile criticism seems to be protecting him to a certain extent.
I’d be very interested to know if there are posts that both criticize something EA in a cogent way as this post does and don’t receive large numbers of downvotes.
To add to Ben’s example, one of the most upvoted posts of all time was critical of discrepancy between the message that working at EA org is a promising career path and the fact that it’s extremely hard to get a job at an EA org. There was probably an element of people empathising with the story but I still think it ‘criticised something EA in a cogent way’.
FWIW, I think the EA community is unusually good at engaging with critical commentary and updating accordingly.
I think we lack clear evidence to conclude that, though. I can just as easily believe the story, given what we’ve seen, that EAF users are more likely to downvote anything criticizing EA (just as LW users are more likely to downvote anything that goes against the standard interpretation of LW rationality). I’d be very interested to know if there are posts that both criticize something EA in a cogent way as this post does and don’t receive large numbers of downvotes.
Also, don’t forget many posts that have pro-EA results are about equally well reasoned as what we see here, but receive overwhelmingly positive votes, even if they receive criticism in the comments. So the question remains, why downvote this post when we respond to it and not downvote other posts when we criticize them?
Hallstead’s criticism of ACE seems like one example.
My article criticizing the EA Funds last year were both more cogent than this post, and the recipient of a much greater number of upvotes, than Ben’s here. I do in fact think it is the case here that this post is receiving downvotes because of the factual errors with it. Yet neither is this entirely separate from the issue of people downvoting the post simply because they don’t like it as a criticism of EA. That people don’t like the post is confounded by the fact the reason they don’t like it could be because they think it’s very erroneous.
Another ex-GiveWell’s employee post criticizing GiveWell and the EA community was recently highly upvoted. See also Ben’s old post Effective Altruism is Self-Recommending, which is currently at +30 (a solid amount given that it was posted on the old forum, where karma totals were much lower).
I think the reason this post is at near 0 karma is because it is objectively wrong in multiple ways, and is of negative value. I would say this is clear if you engage with the comments here, on Ben’s blog, and Jeff Kaufman’s reply.
I actually interpret the voting on this post to be too positive. I think it is because EAs tend to be wary of downvoting criticisms that might be good. Ben’s previous reputation for worthwhile criticism seems to be protecting him to a certain extent.
(views my own)
To add to Ben’s example, one of the most upvoted posts of all time was critical of discrepancy between the message that working at EA org is a promising career path and the fact that it’s extremely hard to get a job at an EA org. There was probably an element of people empathising with the story but I still think it ‘criticised something EA in a cogent way’.
FWIW, I think the EA community is unusually good at engaging with critical commentary and updating accordingly.