- I wonder if it’s counter to productive to talk about “one minute in” considering this may be received by OP as reactive, impatient and the like. I like to think EA values patience, and appreciates complexity which “one minute in” may not fully capture. This makes an EA watching carefully made EA content sound a bit like Simon Cowell. Which is ironic, because most of us do not have the skills to video edit or script write.
- Discussing how well this will motivate change, I think you may be undervaluing humor, scale and the value derived from targeting new people—
Lastly, I may be alone here, but I am concerned with EA community becoming a little too quickly bound to norms and rules. I would be afraid we could quickly become a dogmatic and siloed group. I would argue the approach in the video above is unique/diverse in the community, and that there is strong value in that
With the above being said, I would be also concerned about the possibly drawbacks of strong, argumentative tones—which can quickly become all consuming, from what I have seen in the past.
Lastly, I may be alone here, but I am concerned with EA community becoming a little too quickly bound to norms and rules. I would be afraid we could quickly become a dogmatic and siloed group. I would argue the approach in the video above is unique/diverse in the community, and that there is strong value in that
I agree with the principle of being pro-diversity and anti-dogma in general, but I disagree when it comes to public communications. If someone communicates badly about EA, that harms the movement, can negatively change perceptions, and makes it harder for everyone else doing communication. Eg, 80K over-emphasising earning to give early on.
I think that divisive and argumentative approaches like this one, as Harrison says, can put a lot of people off and give them a more negative image of EA, and I think this can be harmful to the movement. This doesn’t mean that public communication needs to be homogenous, but I do think it’s valuable to push back on public communication that we think may be harmful.
I feel kind of awkward only just now responding to this—I had planned to respond to it the day of, but forgot and then have been traveling the past couple of days. Still, I’ll just make a few comments, some of which I admit might have been made by others elsewhere (I haven’t thoroughly read the Red-Gertler exchange below) but I’ll still make them here.
“I wonder if it’s counter to productive to talk about “one minute in” [...]”
I probably should have been a bit less casual in saying that since, as you point out, that might lead OP to dismissing my comment. However, “one minute in” is a really important standard for this kind of content, since it’s the standard for a lot of real-world audiences: if you are just condemning people or otherwise leaving them with a bad taste in their mouths within 1 minute, you shouldn’t be surprised if people stop watching and develop negative feelings towards the origin/association of the content. That may not be an ideal world, but it’s the one we live in.
I think you may be undervaluing humor, scale and the value derived from targeting new people
I want to respond to this and a key chunk of the points I have seen from Red by emphasizing: not all publicity is good publicity. If you “target new people” at the cost of turning away others who might have been interested (or even just delaying their interest by a few years/months), that might be net harmful. Like Aaron noted, PETA is often ridiculed, plain and simple, although I will say that at least PETA has the status of being just one face/organization (albeit an outsized one) in the at-least-vaguely understood movement of animal rights activism. EA is far less-well known, and a lot of stereotypes from people who are only vaguely familiar but skeptical of EA is that it is elitist, condescending, demanding, etc.—stereotypes which would probably reinforced if one of those people were to watch this video (especially if they only watch the first few miutes).
I would like to politely push-back on this:
- I wonder if it’s counter to productive to talk about “one minute in” considering this may be received by OP as reactive, impatient and the like. I like to think EA values patience, and appreciates complexity which “one minute in” may not fully capture. This makes an EA watching carefully made EA content sound a bit like Simon Cowell. Which is ironic, because most of us do not have the skills to video edit or script write.
- Discussing how well this will motivate change, I think you may be undervaluing humor, scale and the value derived from targeting new people—
Lastly, I may be alone here, but I am concerned with EA community becoming a little too quickly bound to norms and rules. I would be afraid we could quickly become a dogmatic and siloed group. I would argue the approach in the video above is unique/diverse in the community, and that there is strong value in that
With the above being said, I would be also concerned about the possibly drawbacks of strong, argumentative tones—which can quickly become all consuming, from what I have seen in the past.
I agree with the principle of being pro-diversity and anti-dogma in general, but I disagree when it comes to public communications. If someone communicates badly about EA, that harms the movement, can negatively change perceptions, and makes it harder for everyone else doing communication. Eg, 80K over-emphasising earning to give early on.
I think that divisive and argumentative approaches like this one, as Harrison says, can put a lot of people off and give them a more negative image of EA, and I think this can be harmful to the movement. This doesn’t mean that public communication needs to be homogenous, but I do think it’s valuable to push back on public communication that we think may be harmful.
I feel kind of awkward only just now responding to this—I had planned to respond to it the day of, but forgot and then have been traveling the past couple of days. Still, I’ll just make a few comments, some of which I admit might have been made by others elsewhere (I haven’t thoroughly read the Red-Gertler exchange below) but I’ll still make them here.
I probably should have been a bit less casual in saying that since, as you point out, that might lead OP to dismissing my comment. However, “one minute in” is a really important standard for this kind of content, since it’s the standard for a lot of real-world audiences: if you are just condemning people or otherwise leaving them with a bad taste in their mouths within 1 minute, you shouldn’t be surprised if people stop watching and develop negative feelings towards the origin/association of the content. That may not be an ideal world, but it’s the one we live in.
I want to respond to this and a key chunk of the points I have seen from Red by emphasizing: not all publicity is good publicity. If you “target new people” at the cost of turning away others who might have been interested (or even just delaying their interest by a few years/months), that might be net harmful. Like Aaron noted, PETA is often ridiculed, plain and simple, although I will say that at least PETA has the status of being just one face/organization (albeit an outsized one) in the at-least-vaguely understood movement of animal rights activism. EA is far less-well known, and a lot of stereotypes from people who are only vaguely familiar but skeptical of EA is that it is elitist, condescending, demanding, etc.—stereotypes which would probably reinforced if one of those people were to watch this video (especially if they only watch the first few miutes).