I’m not against it- I think it’s an okay way of framing something real. Your phrasing here is pretty sensible to me.
“Let’s say we could identify exemplary societies across the past, present, and future. Furthermore, assume that, on some questions, these societies had a consensus common sense view. Finally, assume that, in some cases, we can predict what that intertemporal consensus common sense view would be.
Given all three of these assumptions, then I think we should consider adopting that point of view.”
But I have concerns about the future perspective, in theory and practice.
I think people will just assert future people will agree with them. You think future people will agree with you, I think future people will agree with me. There’s no way to settle that dispute conclusively (maybe expert predictions or a prediction market can point to some answer), so I think imagining the future perspective is basically worthless.
In contrast, we can look at people today or in the past (contingent on historical records). The widespread belief in the divine is, I think, at least another piece of (weak?) evidence that points to taking the wager. This could be weakened if secular societies or institutions were much more successful than their contemporaries.
“My view makes perfect sense, contemporary culture is crazy, and history will bear me out when my perspective becomes a durable new form of common sense” is a statement that, while it scans as arrogant, could easily be true—and has been many times in the past. It at least explains why a person who ascribes to “social intelligence” as a guide might still hold many counterintuitive opinions. I agree with you though that it’s not useful for settling disputes when people disagree in their predictions about “universal common sense.”
If you believe that current and past common sense is a better guide, then doesn’t that work against Pascal’s Wager? I mean, how many people now, or in the past, would agree with you that Pascal’s Wager is a good idea? I think it has stuck around in part because it’s so counterintuitive. We don’t exactly see a ton of deathbed conversions, much less for game-theoretic reasons.
I would say if we use other people’s judgment as a guide for our own, it’s an argument for the belief in the divine/God/the supernatural and it becomes hard to say Christianity and Islam have negligible probability. So rules that are like “ignore tiny probability” don’t work. Your idea of discounting probability as utility rises still works but we’ve talked about why I don’t think that’s compelling enough.
I don’t have good survey evidence on Pascal’s Wager, but I think a lot of religious believers would agree with the general concept- don’t risk your soul, life is short and eternity is long, and other phrases like that seem to reference the basic idea.
This guy converted on his deathbed because of the wager (John von Neumann).
I’m not against it- I think it’s an okay way of framing something real. Your phrasing here is pretty sensible to me.
“Let’s say we could identify exemplary societies across the past, present, and future. Furthermore, assume that, on some questions, these societies had a consensus common sense view. Finally, assume that, in some cases, we can predict what that intertemporal consensus common sense view would be.
Given all three of these assumptions, then I think we should consider adopting that point of view.”
But I have concerns about the future perspective, in theory and practice.
I think people will just assert future people will agree with them. You think future people will agree with you, I think future people will agree with me. There’s no way to settle that dispute conclusively (maybe expert predictions or a prediction market can point to some answer), so I think imagining the future perspective is basically worthless.
In contrast, we can look at people today or in the past (contingent on historical records). The widespread belief in the divine is, I think, at least another piece of (weak?) evidence that points to taking the wager. This could be weakened if secular societies or institutions were much more successful than their contemporaries.
“My view makes perfect sense, contemporary culture is crazy, and history will bear me out when my perspective becomes a durable new form of common sense” is a statement that, while it scans as arrogant, could easily be true—and has been many times in the past. It at least explains why a person who ascribes to “social intelligence” as a guide might still hold many counterintuitive opinions. I agree with you though that it’s not useful for settling disputes when people disagree in their predictions about “universal common sense.”
If you believe that current and past common sense is a better guide, then doesn’t that work against Pascal’s Wager? I mean, how many people now, or in the past, would agree with you that Pascal’s Wager is a good idea? I think it has stuck around in part because it’s so counterintuitive. We don’t exactly see a ton of deathbed conversions, much less for game-theoretic reasons.
I would say if we use other people’s judgment as a guide for our own, it’s an argument for the belief in the divine/God/the supernatural and it becomes hard to say Christianity and Islam have negligible probability. So rules that are like “ignore tiny probability” don’t work. Your idea of discounting probability as utility rises still works but we’ve talked about why I don’t think that’s compelling enough.
I don’t have good survey evidence on Pascal’s Wager, but I think a lot of religious believers would agree with the general concept- don’t risk your soul, life is short and eternity is long, and other phrases like that seem to reference the basic idea.
This guy converted on his deathbed because of the wager (John von Neumann).