There’s an uncontroversial interpretation and a controversial one.
Vague and uncontroversial claim: When we say that pleasure is good, we mean that all else equal, pleasure is always unobjectionable, and often it is desired.
Specific and controversial claim: When we say that pleasure is good, what we mean is that, all else equal, pleasure is an end we should be striving for. This captures points like:
that pleasure is in itself desirable,
that no mental states without pleasure are in itself desirable,
that more pleasure is always better than less pleasure.
People who say “pleasure is good” claim that we can establish this by introspection about the nature of pleasure. I don’t see how one could establish the specific and controversial claim from mere introspection. After all, even if I personally valued pleasure in the strong sense (I don’t), I couldn’t, with my own introspection, establish that everyone does the same. People’s psychologies differ, and how pleasure is experienced in the moment doesn’t fully determine how one will relate to it. Whether one wants to dedicate one’s life (or, for altruists, at least the self-oriented portions of one’s life) to pursuing pleasure depends on more than just what pleasure feels like.
Therefore, I think pleasure is only good in the weak sense. It’s not good in the strong sense.
Another argument that points to “pleasure is good” is that people and many animals are drawn to things that gives them pleasure, and that generally people communicate about their own pleasurable states as good. Given a random person off the street, I’m willing to bet that after introspection they will suggest that they value pleasure in the strong sense. So while this may not be universally accepted, I still think it could hold weight.
Also, a symmetric statement can be said regarding suffering, which I don’t think you’d accept. People who say “suffering is bad” claim that we can establish this by introspection about the nature of suffering.
From reading Tranquilism, I think that you’d respond to these as saying that people confuse “pleasure is good” with an internal preference or craving for pleasure, while suffering is actually intrinsically bad. But taking an epistemically modest approach would require quite a bit of evidence for that, especially as part of the argument is that introspection may be flawed.
I’m curious as to how strongly you hold this position. (Personally, I’m totally confused here but lean toward the strong sense of pleasure is good but think that overall pleasure holds little moral weight)
Another argument that points to “pleasure is good” is that people and many animals are drawn to things that gives them pleasure
It’s worth pointing out that this association isn’t perfect. See [1] and [2] for some discussion. Tranquilism allows that if someone is in some moment neither drawn to (craving) (more) pleasurable experiences nor experiencing pleasure (or as much as they could be), this isn’t worse than if they were experiencing (more) pleasure. If more pleasure is always better, then contentment is never good enough, but to be content is to be satisfied, to feel that it is good enough or not feel that it isn’t good enough. Of course, this is in the moment, and not necessarily a reflective judgement.
I also approach pleasure vs suffering in a kind of conditional way, like an asymmetric person-affecting view, or “preference-affecting view”:
I would say that something only matters if it matters (or will matter) to someone, and an absence of pleasure doesn’t necessarily matter to someone who isn’t experiencing pleasure, and certainly doesn’t matter to someone who does not and will not exist, and so we have no inherent reason to promote pleasure. On the other hand, there’s no suffering unless someone is experiencing it, and according to some definitions of suffering, it necessarily matters to the sufferer. (A bit more on this argument here, but applied to good and bad lives.)
I agree that pleasure is not intrinsically good (i.e. I also deny the strong claim). I think it’s likely that experiencing the full spectrum of human emotions (happiness, sadness, anger, etc.) and facing challenges are good for personal growth and therefore improve well-being in the long run. However, I think that suffering is inherently bad, though I’m not sure what distinguishes suffering from displeasure.
[Is pleasure ‘good’?]
What do we mean by the claim “Pleasure is good”?
There’s an uncontroversial interpretation and a controversial one.
Vague and uncontroversial claim: When we say that pleasure is good, we mean that all else equal, pleasure is always unobjectionable, and often it is desired.
Specific and controversial claim: When we say that pleasure is good, what we mean is that, all else equal, pleasure is an end we should be striving for. This captures points like:
that pleasure is in itself desirable,
that no mental states without pleasure are in itself desirable,
that more pleasure is always better than less pleasure.
People who say “pleasure is good” claim that we can establish this by introspection about the nature of pleasure. I don’t see how one could establish the specific and controversial claim from mere introspection. After all, even if I personally valued pleasure in the strong sense (I don’t), I couldn’t, with my own introspection, establish that everyone does the same. People’s psychologies differ, and how pleasure is experienced in the moment doesn’t fully determine how one will relate to it. Whether one wants to dedicate one’s life (or, for altruists, at least the self-oriented portions of one’s life) to pursuing pleasure depends on more than just what pleasure feels like.
Therefore, I think pleasure is only good in the weak sense. It’s not good in the strong sense.
Another argument that points to “pleasure is good” is that people and many animals are drawn to things that gives them pleasure, and that generally people communicate about their own pleasurable states as good. Given a random person off the street, I’m willing to bet that after introspection they will suggest that they value pleasure in the strong sense. So while this may not be universally accepted, I still think it could hold weight.
Also, a symmetric statement can be said regarding suffering, which I don’t think you’d accept. People who say “suffering is bad” claim that we can establish this by introspection about the nature of suffering.
From reading Tranquilism, I think that you’d respond to these as saying that people confuse “pleasure is good” with an internal preference or craving for pleasure, while suffering is actually intrinsically bad. But taking an epistemically modest approach would require quite a bit of evidence for that, especially as part of the argument is that introspection may be flawed.
I’m curious as to how strongly you hold this position. (Personally, I’m totally confused here but lean toward the strong sense of pleasure is good but think that overall pleasure holds little moral weight)
It’s worth pointing out that this association isn’t perfect. See [1] and [2] for some discussion. Tranquilism allows that if someone is in some moment neither drawn to (craving) (more) pleasurable experiences nor experiencing pleasure (or as much as they could be), this isn’t worse than if they were experiencing (more) pleasure. If more pleasure is always better, then contentment is never good enough, but to be content is to be satisfied, to feel that it is good enough or not feel that it isn’t good enough. Of course, this is in the moment, and not necessarily a reflective judgement.
I also approach pleasure vs suffering in a kind of conditional way, like an asymmetric person-affecting view, or “preference-affecting view”:
I would say that something only matters if it matters (or will matter) to someone, and an absence of pleasure doesn’t necessarily matter to someone who isn’t experiencing pleasure, and certainly doesn’t matter to someone who does not and will not exist, and so we have no inherent reason to promote pleasure. On the other hand, there’s no suffering unless someone is experiencing it, and according to some definitions of suffering, it necessarily matters to the sufferer. (A bit more on this argument here, but applied to good and bad lives.)
I agree that pleasure is not intrinsically good (i.e. I also deny the strong claim). I think it’s likely that experiencing the full spectrum of human emotions (happiness, sadness, anger, etc.) and facing challenges are good for personal growth and therefore improve well-being in the long run. However, I think that suffering is inherently bad, though I’m not sure what distinguishes suffering from displeasure.