Lots of people on this forum have struggled with the feeling of being compromised. Since FTX. Or Leverage. Or Guzey. Or Thiel. Or Singer. Or Mill or whatever.[4]
But this is the normal course of a life, including highly moral lives.…
But the greater part of it being normal is that all action incurs risk, including moral risk.
It’s not correct to say that action deserves criticism, but maybe correct to say that action receives criticism. The relevant distinction to make is why the action brought criticism on it, and that is different case-by-case. The criticism of SBF is because of alleged action that involves financial fraud over billions of dollars. The criticism of Singer with regard to his book Practical Ethics is because of distortion of his views on euthanasia. The criticism of Thiel with regard to his financial support of MIRI is because of disagreements over his financial priorities. And I could go on. Some of those people have done other things deserving or receiving criticism. The point is that whether something receives criticism doesn’t tell you much about whether it deserves criticism. While these folks all risk criticism, they don’t all deserve it, at least not for the actions you suggested with your links.
risk criticism for all actions. Any organization risks criticism for public actions.
deserve criticism for any immoral actions. Immoral actions deserve criticism.
risk criticism with risky actions whose failure has unethical consequences and public attention. EA has drawn criticism for using expected value calculations to make moral judgments.
Is that the compromise you’re alluding to when you write:
But the greater part of it being normal is that all action incurs risk, including moral risk. We do our best to avoid them (and in my experience grantmakers are vigilant about negative EV things), but you can’t avoid it entirely. (Again: total inaction also does not avoid it.) Empirically, this risk level is high enough that nearly everyone eventually bites it.
SBF claimed that, if events had gone differently, FTX would have recovered enough funds to carry on. In that hypothetical scenario, FTX’s illegal dealing with Alameda would have gone unnoticed and would have had no adverse financial consequences. Then the risk-taking is still unethical but does not inspire criticism.
There is a difference between maximizing potential benefits and minimizing potential harms. It’s not correct to say that minimizing unavoidable harms from one’s actions has negative consequences for others and therefore those actions are immoral options, unless all one means by an immoral action is that the action had negative consequences for others.
I don’t think there’s unanimity about whether actions should be taken to minimize harms, maximize benefits, or some combination.
If all it means to “bite it” is that one takes actions with harmful consequences, then sure, everyone bites the bullet. However, that doesn’t speak to intention or morality or decision-making. There’s no relief from the angst of limited altruistic options in my knowing that I’ve caused harm before. If anything, honest appraisal of that harm yields the opposite result. I have more to dislike about my own attempts at altruism. In that way, I am compromised. But that’s hardly a motive for successful altruism. Is that your point?
Good analysis. This post is mostly about the reaction of others to your actions (or rather, the pain and demotivation you feel in response) rather than your action’s impact. I add a limp note that the two are correlated.
The point is to reset people’s reference class and so salve their excess pain. People start out assuming that innocence (not-being-compromised) is the average state, but this isn’t true, and if you assume this, you suffer excessively when you eventually get shamed / cause harm, and you might even pack it in.
“Bite it” = “everyone eventually does something that attracts criticism, rightly or wrongly”
You’ve persuaded me that I should have used two words:
benign compromise: “Part of this normality comes from shame usually being a common sense matter—and common sense morals correlate with actual harm, but are often wrong in the precise ways this movement is devoted to countering!”
deserved compromise: “all action incurs risk, including moral risk. We do our best to avoid them (and in my experience grantmakers are vigilant about negative EV things), but you can’t avoid it entirely. (Again: total inaction also does not avoid it.)”
Oh, I see. So by “benign” you mean shaming from folks holding common-sense but wrong conclusions, while by “deserved” you mean shaming from folks holding correct conclusions about consequences of EA actions. And “compromise” is in this sense, about being a source of harm.
It’s not correct to say that action deserves criticism, but maybe correct to say that action receives criticism. The relevant distinction to make is why the action brought criticism on it, and that is different case-by-case. The criticism of SBF is because of alleged action that involves financial fraud over billions of dollars. The criticism of Singer with regard to his book Practical Ethics is because of distortion of his views on euthanasia. The criticism of Thiel with regard to his financial support of MIRI is because of disagreements over his financial priorities. And I could go on. Some of those people have done other things deserving or receiving criticism. The point is that whether something receives criticism doesn’t tell you much about whether it deserves criticism. While these folks all risk criticism, they don’t all deserve it, at least not for the actions you suggested with your links.
We’re not disagreeing.
It could be that EA folks:
risk criticism for all actions. Any organization risks criticism for public actions.
deserve criticism for any immoral actions. Immoral actions deserve criticism.
risk criticism with risky actions whose failure has unethical consequences and public attention. EA has drawn criticism for using expected value calculations to make moral judgments.
Is that the compromise you’re alluding to when you write:
SBF claimed that, if events had gone differently, FTX would have recovered enough funds to carry on. In that hypothetical scenario, FTX’s illegal dealing with Alameda would have gone unnoticed and would have had no adverse financial consequences. Then the risk-taking is still unethical but does not inspire criticism.
There is a difference between maximizing potential benefits and minimizing potential harms. It’s not correct to say that minimizing unavoidable harms from one’s actions has negative consequences for others and therefore those actions are immoral options, unless all one means by an immoral action is that the action had negative consequences for others.
I don’t think there’s unanimity about whether actions should be taken to minimize harms, maximize benefits, or some combination.
If all it means to “bite it” is that one takes actions with harmful consequences, then sure, everyone bites the bullet. However, that doesn’t speak to intention or morality or decision-making. There’s no relief from the angst of limited altruistic options in my knowing that I’ve caused harm before. If anything, honest appraisal of that harm yields the opposite result. I have more to dislike about my own attempts at altruism. In that way, I am compromised. But that’s hardly a motive for successful altruism. Is that your point?
Good analysis. This post is mostly about the reaction of others to your actions (or rather, the pain and demotivation you feel in response) rather than your action’s impact. I add a limp note that the two are correlated.
The point is to reset people’s reference class and so salve their excess pain. People start out assuming that innocence (not-being-compromised) is the average state, but this isn’t true, and if you assume this, you suffer excessively when you eventually get shamed / cause harm, and you might even pack it in.
“Bite it” = “everyone eventually does something that attracts criticism, rightly or wrongly”
You’ve persuaded me that I should have used two words:
benign compromise: “Part of this normality comes from shame usually being a common sense matter—and common sense morals correlate with actual harm, but are often wrong in the precise ways this movement is devoted to countering!”
deserved compromise: “all action incurs risk, including moral risk. We do our best to avoid them (and in my experience grantmakers are vigilant about negative EV things), but you can’t avoid it entirely. (Again: total inaction also does not avoid it.)”
Oh, I see. So by “benign” you mean shaming from folks holding common-sense but wrong conclusions, while by “deserved” you mean shaming from folks holding correct conclusions about consequences of EA actions. And “compromise” is in this sense, about being a source of harm.