For me the reputational risks that Jack Lewars mentioned worry me a lot. Like how will the media portray effective altruism in the future? We’re definitely going be seen as less sympathetic in leftist circles, being funded by billionaires and all.
Another concern for me is how this will change what type of people we’ll attract to the movement. In the past the movement attracted people who were willing to live on a small amount of money because they care so much about others in this world. Now I’m worried that there will be more people who are less aligned with the values, who are in it at least partly for the money.
In another way it feels unfair. Why do I get to ask for 10k with a good chance of success, while friends of mine struggling with money who aren’t EA aligned can’t? I don’t feel any more special or deserving than them in a way. I feel unfairly privileged somehow.
There’s also this icky feeling I get with accepting money: what if my project isn’t better than cash transfers to the extreme poor? Even if the probabilities of success are high enough, the thought of just “wasting money” while it could have gone to extremely poor people massively improving their lives just saddens me.
I’m not trying to make logical arguments here for or against something, I’m just sharing the feelings and worries going through my head.
I think it’s good that this is being discussed publicly for the world to see. Then it at least doesn’t seem to non-EA’s who read this that we’re all completely comfortable with it. I’m still of the opinion that all this money is great and positive news for the world and I’m very grateful for the FTX Future Fund, but it does come with these worries.
Why do I get to ask for 10k with a good chance of success, while friends of mine struggling with money who aren’t EA aligned can’t? I don’t feel any more special or deserving than them in a way. I feel unfairly privileged somehow.
I appreciate that you’re not trying to make logical arguments, but rather share your feelings. But in any event, my view is that this isn’t an important consideration.
If they’re doing something that’s high-impact, then there might be such a case—but I assume you mean that they are not. And I think it’s better to look at a global scale—and on such a scale, most people in the West are doing relatively well. So I don’t think that’s the group we should be worried about neglecting.
Can someone clarify this “taking money from billionaires bad” thing? I know some people are against billionaires existing, but surely diverting money from them to altruistic causes would be the ideal outcome for someone who doesn’t want that money siloed? The only reason I can think of (admittedly I don’t know a lot about real leftism, economics, etc.) that someone wouldn’t want to, assuming said billionaire isn’t e.g. micromanaging for evil purposes, is a fear of moral contamination—or rather, social-moral contamination… Being contaminated with the social rejection and animosity that the billionaire “carries” within said complaining group. To me this seems like a type of reputation management that is so costly as to be unethical/immoral. It’s like, “I’m afraid people won’t like me if I talk to Johnny, so I can’t transport Johnny’s fifty dollars to the person panhandling outside.” Surely we can set that sort of thing aside for the sake of actual material progress? Am I missing something? Because if it essentially amounts to “Johnny is unpopular and if I talk to him I might become unpopular too,” we shouldn’t set a norm of operating under those fears. That seems cowardly.
Hi Jeroen, thank you for a wonderfully worded comment. I think this is an excellent overview of different feelings of uneasiness people have surrounding the influx of funding within EA. I share most of these feelings, and know other that do.
The logical arguments these feelings relate to are another discussion (I have many thoughts), for now I find it really interesting data to see other people are experiencing feelings of uneasiness and why.
For me the reputational risks that Jack Lewars mentioned worry me a lot. Like how will the media portray effective altruism in the future? We’re definitely going be seen as less sympathetic in leftist circles, being funded by billionaires and all.
I don’t have a satisfying answer to this that calms my worries, but one response could be that the the damage done to the reputation of EA won’t outweigh the good being done by all the money that goes to good causes.
Another concern for me is how this will change what type of people we’ll attract to the movement. In the past the movement attracted people who were willing to live on a small amount of money because they care so much about others in this world. Now I’m worried that there will be more people who are less aligned with the values, who are in it at least partly for the money.
Don’t have a good answer to this. Perhaps just that I’m overestimating the scale of this happening.
In another way it feels unfair. Why do I get to ask for 10k with a good chance of success, while friends of mine struggling with money who aren’t EA aligned can’t? I don’t feel any more special or deserving than them in a way. I feel unfairly privileged somehow.
Stefan Schubert worded it well: “I think it’s better to look at a global scale—and on such a scale, most people in the West are doing relatively well. So I don’t think that’s the group we should be worried about neglecting.”
There’s also this icky feeling I get with accepting money: what if my project isn’t better than cash transfers to the extreme poor? Even if the probabilities of success are high enough, the thought of just “wasting money” while it could have gone to extremely poor people massively improving their lives just saddens me.
This is just me being risk averse. Even if an EV calculation works out, it’s difficult shake off the uncomfortable feeling of potentially being one of the unsuccesful projects as part of hits-based giving.
For me the reputational risks that Jack Lewars mentioned worry me a lot. Like how will the media portray effective altruism in the future? We’re definitely going be seen as less sympathetic in leftist circles, being funded by billionaires and all.
Another concern for me is how this will change what type of people we’ll attract to the movement. In the past the movement attracted people who were willing to live on a small amount of money because they care so much about others in this world. Now I’m worried that there will be more people who are less aligned with the values, who are in it at least partly for the money.
In another way it feels unfair. Why do I get to ask for 10k with a good chance of success, while friends of mine struggling with money who aren’t EA aligned can’t? I don’t feel any more special or deserving than them in a way. I feel unfairly privileged somehow.
There’s also this icky feeling I get with accepting money: what if my project isn’t better than cash transfers to the extreme poor? Even if the probabilities of success are high enough, the thought of just “wasting money” while it could have gone to extremely poor people massively improving their lives just saddens me.
I’m not trying to make logical arguments here for or against something, I’m just sharing the feelings and worries going through my head.
I think it’s good that this is being discussed publicly for the world to see. Then it at least doesn’t seem to non-EA’s who read this that we’re all completely comfortable with it. I’m still of the opinion that all this money is great and positive news for the world and I’m very grateful for the FTX Future Fund, but it does come with these worries.
I appreciate that you’re not trying to make logical arguments, but rather share your feelings. But in any event, my view is that this isn’t an important consideration.
If they’re doing something that’s high-impact, then there might be such a case—but I assume you mean that they are not. And I think it’s better to look at a global scale—and on such a scale, most people in the West are doing relatively well. So I don’t think that’s the group we should be worried about neglecting.
Can someone clarify this “taking money from billionaires bad” thing? I know some people are against billionaires existing, but surely diverting money from them to altruistic causes would be the ideal outcome for someone who doesn’t want that money siloed? The only reason I can think of (admittedly I don’t know a lot about real leftism, economics, etc.) that someone wouldn’t want to, assuming said billionaire isn’t e.g. micromanaging for evil purposes, is a fear of moral contamination—or rather, social-moral contamination… Being contaminated with the social rejection and animosity that the billionaire “carries” within said complaining group. To me this seems like a type of reputation management that is so costly as to be unethical/immoral. It’s like, “I’m afraid people won’t like me if I talk to Johnny, so I can’t transport Johnny’s fifty dollars to the person panhandling outside.” Surely we can set that sort of thing aside for the sake of actual material progress? Am I missing something? Because if it essentially amounts to “Johnny is unpopular and if I talk to him I might become unpopular too,” we shouldn’t set a norm of operating under those fears. That seems cowardly.
Hi Jeroen, thank you for a wonderfully worded comment. I think this is an excellent overview of different feelings of uneasiness people have surrounding the influx of funding within EA. I share most of these feelings, and know other that do.
The logical arguments these feelings relate to are another discussion (I have many thoughts), for now I find it really interesting data to see other people are experiencing feelings of uneasiness and why.
My personal responses to these:
I don’t have a satisfying answer to this that calms my worries, but one response could be that the the damage done to the reputation of EA won’t outweigh the good being done by all the money that goes to good causes.
Don’t have a good answer to this. Perhaps just that I’m overestimating the scale of this happening.
Stefan Schubert worded it well: “I think it’s better to look at a global scale—and on such a scale, most people in the West are doing relatively well. So I don’t think that’s the group we should be worried about neglecting.”
This is just me being risk averse. Even if an EV calculation works out, it’s difficult shake off the uncomfortable feeling of potentially being one of the unsuccesful projects as part of hits-based giving.