Thanks for sharing
Dov
Karma: 35
[Question] Religion: want to talk about it?
Thanks for posting this. I’m curious how many people suffer from nightmares and get more a lot more clarity on how much suffering nightmares cause overall.
There are probably more than enough comments already, but I just have to say that I think EA’s ideology is not essential and not set in stone.
The ideological aspects are secondary to the question of how to do the most good. Therefore in theory EA can change its ideology without changing its essence, which may set it apart from other ideologies.
P.S. I loved this post, thanks so much for writing it out. I can’t help but be convinced by most of the post: EA may not be an ideology, but it’s been acting like one as of late.
I’m an ignoramus when it comes to PR but this seems like such an obviously good idea that it makes me wonder if there are good reasons why it hasn’t been implemented.
Like maybe a PR team would make EA more impervious to actually good and useful criticism.
But maybe that isn’t necessary, and if there are no good reasons against a professional EA PR team, then you have my full support
i like that you included a further reading section.
Very intersting question, though I wouldn’t mind if you clarified it. What exactly do you mean by accepting Pascal’s wager? Practicing any major religion until you start beleiving in it?
Perhaps more to the point: Pascal’s wager assumes “that God would not grant eternal life to a non-believer and that sincerity in one’s belief in God is not a requirement for salvation.” which may not be obviously true to many EAers and religious adherents.
Oh in that case, I havent seen any good reasons not to take hell and heaven seriously (e.g. at least try to find out for sure if theyre fiction or not) from effective altrusits or others, but please let me know if you come across any.
I’ve been mulling over what this would entail, and plan on sharing my ideas on the EA forum in the next few days (update: I posted that here: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/twaKWNjAc4KEz3kMq/investigating-ideology-want-to-earn-money-help-ea-and-or-me ).
I’d love to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks for asking this really cool question.
[Question] Why should someone do the MOST good? Does a normative argument even exist?
Thanks for the heads up! Do you know how to take it off?
P.S. I’ve tried editing the topics and even googling it :/
Good idea, but I’m not just looking for feedback right now. I’m also trying to test out the forum before making my first real post. And I guess it’s not so bad if EAers get a sneak peek
Thanks so much! I didn’t know that was an option.
Im very interested if infinite ethics includes the possibility that a person’s sentience can persist for infinite time (i.e. wat lots of religions claim)
I fully support EA distillation since it often feels like I’m drowning in a sea of great content. I’d add that “You might be a good fit for this if you:”
are suffiecently motivated, and got something like High Performance Habits. That’s the name of a book, that I’m not affiliated with anyway (except that it’s done wonders for me), written by someone who’s job it is to help people become more successful. And he writes:
“Everything is trainable. No matter what skill you want to learn, with enough training and practice and intention, you can become more proficient at it...
Perhaps the three best findings of contemporary research tell us that you can get better at practically anything if you keep a growth mindset (the belief that you can improve with effort), focus on your goals with passion and perseverance, and practice with excellence.”
Investigating Ideology: want to earn money, help EA and/or me? Then check this out; it may be a mighty neglected cause
I don’t think you mentioned the Ideological Turing Test and Chesterton’s fence, but I think they may be worth adding.
These two concepts have really helped me make sure I understand (instead of unconsciously misrepresenting) ideas I don’t agree with.
Julia Galef eloborates on both concepts well in her book Scout Mindset (mentioned above).
P.S. I really liked this post, it was very concise and helpful for me.
Why bother doing the most good?
“Certainty is the antidote to learning”—High Performance Habits
That came to my mind when reading this post (which I really liked (so much that I don’t have much else to add:)).
Thanks for the feedback, it got me thinking and led to me clarifying my work. Feel free to offer more.
”make use of studies of ideology in general
study religious epistemologies using research done to date”
Good idea, it would be wasteful to try to reinvent what has already been done. However I have tried and failed to find comprehensive studies and research thorough enough for an issue whose stakes are so high. How about you?“I would be skeptical of the claim that religions all pursue effective altruism of some sort.”
Me too! To clarify, one of my points was that religions claim to know by far the best ways (and so aspiring effective cannot afford to dismiss them without a fair trial), not they are good at putting those answers into practice [more on this in the section The stakes could not be higher].In fact, I think it is safe to say most religious adherents often fall short of the ideal. For example popular Christian apologists write “Someone once said the biggest problem with Christianity is Christians” (Geisler and Turek, 2004) and I’ve heard similar sentiments from prominent Muslims and Jews and I bet they exist in other religions.
“You could investigate religious models of morality using western distinctions (deontology, axiology, consequentialism, utilitarianism, ..).”
Could you elaborate why? I was thinking it’s less important to classify claims (essential to effective altruism) and more important to focus on verifying or falsifying them asap.“[#1] The major world religions are more or less immune to epistemological challenges and [#2] I am tempted to think the same about any deeply held beliefs of folks who identify with EA.”
Re #1: I don’t disagree and that’s okay with me since I want to figure out how the most effective altruism is done, not waste my time convincing religious people who don’t share that interest.
#2 I empathize, but think it would be a mistake to underestimate EA without giving them a shot. Not only do they pledge allegiance to selflessness and seek criticism more than most, but the Centre for EA even states that radical open mindedness is a core value of EA. Thanks to your comment I have specified that in (what is currently) footnote [83].
I agree