tobycrisford 🔸

• tobycrisford 🔸Apr 24, 2025, 6:18 AM

  4 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: A Primer in Causal In­fer­ence: An­i­mal Product Con­sump­tion as a Case Study

  This is a fantastic , clearly written, post. Thank you for writing up and sharing!

  In the 3 models, why is outcome_2 not included as a predictor?

  I’m just trying to wrap my head around how the 3-wave separation works, but can’t quite follow how the confounders will be controlled for if the treatment is the only variable included from wave 2.

  For example, in the first model:

  • Suppose ‘activism’ was a confounder for the effect of ‘veganuary’ on ‘outcome’ (so ‘activism’ caused increased ‘veganuary’ exposure, as well as increased ‘outcome’).

  • Suppose we have 2 participants with identical Wave 1 responses.

  • Between wave 1 and wave 2, the first participant is exposed to ‘activism’, which increases both their ‘veganuary’ and ‘outcome’ values, and this change persists all the way through to Wave 3.

  • The first participant now has higher outcome_3 and veganuary_2 than the second participant, with all other predictors in the model equal, so this will lead to a positive coefficient for veganuary_2, even though the relationship between veganuary and outcome is not causal.

  I can see how this problem is avoided if outcome_2 is included as a predictor instead (or maybe as well as..?) outcome_1. So maybe this is just a typo..? If so I would be interested in the explanation for whether you need outcome_1 and outcome_2, or if just outcome_2 is enough. I’m finding that quite confusing to think about!

• tobycrisford 🔸Apr 2, 2025, 12:01 PM

  4 points

  1 ∶ 0

  in reply to: titotal’s comment on: Large Lan­guage Models Pass the Tur­ing Test

  Thanks for sharing the original definition! I didn’t realise Turing had defined the parameters so precisely, and that they weren’t actually that strict! I

  I probably need to stop saying that AI hasn’t passed the Turing test yet then. I guess it has! You’re right that this ends up being an argument over semantics, but seems fair to let Alan Turing define what the term ‘Turing Test’ should mean.

  But I do think that the stricter form of the Turing test defined in that metaculus forecast is still a really useful metric for deciding when AGI has been achieved, whereas this much weaker Turing test probably isn’t.

  (Also, for what it’s worth, the business tasks I have in mind here aren’t really ‘complex’, they are the kind of tasks that an average human could quite easily do well on within a 5-minute window, possibly as part of a Turing-test style setup, but LLMs struggle with)

• tobycrisford 🔸Apr 2, 2025, 7:22 AM

  9 points

  1 ∶ 1

  on: Large Lan­guage Models Pass the Tur­ing Test

  I don’t think we should say AI has passed the Turing test until it has passed the test under conditions similar to this:

  But I do really like that these researchers have put the test online for people to try!

  https://​​turingtest.live/​​

  I’ve had one conversation as the interrogator, and I was able to easily pick out the human in 2 questions. My opener was:

  “Hi, how many words are there in this sentence?”

  The AI said ‘8’, I said ‘are you sure?’, and it re-iterated its incorrect answer after claiming to have recounted.

  The human said ‘9’, I said ‘are you sure?‘, and they said ‘yes?’.. indicating confusion and annoyance for being challenged on such an obvious question.

  Maybe I was paired with one of the worse LLMs… but unless it’s using hidden chain of thought under the hood (which it doesn’t sound like it is) then I don’t think even GPT 4.5 can accurately perform counting tasks without writing out its full working.

  My current job involves trying to get LLMs to automate business tasks, and my impression is that current state of the art models are still a fair way from something which is truly indistinguishable from an average human, even when confronted with relatively simple questions! (Not saying they won’t quickly close the gap though, maybe they will!)

• tobycrisford 🔸Mar 19, 2025, 1:21 PM

  1 point

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: funnyfranco’s comment on: AGI Mo­ral­ity and Why It Is Un­likely to Emerge as a Fea­ture of Superintelligence

  Evolution is chaotic and messy, but so is stochastic gradient descent (the word ‘stochastic’ is in the name!) The optimisation function might be clean, but the process we use to search for optimum models is not.

  If AGI emerges from the field of machine learning in the state it’s in today, then it won’t be “designed” to pursue a goal, any more than humans were designed. Instead it will emerge from a random process, through billions of tiny updates, and this process will just have been rigged to favour things which do well on some chosen metric.

  This seems extremely similar to how humans were created, through evolution by natural selection. In the case of humans, the metric being optimized for was the ability to spread our genes. In AIs, it might be accuracy at predicting the next word, or human helpfulness scores.

  The closest things to AGI we have so far do not act with “strict logical efficiency”, or always behave rationally. In fact, logic puzzles are one of the things they particularly struggle with!

• tobycrisford 🔸Mar 19, 2025, 7:30 AM

  3 points

  1 ∶ 0

  on: AGI Mo­ral­ity and Why It Is Un­likely to Emerge as a Fea­ture of Superintelligence

  I voted ‘disagree’ on this, not because I’m highly confident you are wrong, but because I think things are a lot less straightforward than this. A couple of counterpoints that I think clash with this thesis:

  • Human morality may be a consequence of evolution, but modern ‘moral’ behaviour often involves acting in ways which have no evolutionary advantage. For example, lots of EAs make significant sacrifices to help people on the other side of the world, who are outside their community and will never have a chance to reciprocate, or to help non-human animals who we evolved to eat. I think there’s two ways you can take this: (1) the evolutionary explanation of morality is flawed or incomplete, or (2) evolution has given us some generic ability to feel compassion to others which originally helped us to co-operate more effectively, but is now ‘misfiring’ and leading us to e.g. embrace utilitarianism. I think either explanation is good news for morality in AGIs. Moral behaviour may follow naturally from relatively simple ideas or values that we might expect an AGI to have or adopt (especially if we intentionally try to make this happen).

  • You draw a distinction between AGI which is “programmed with a goal and will optimise towards that goal” and humans who evolved to survive, but actually these processes seem very similar. Evolutionary pressures select for creatures who excel at a single goal: reproducing, in a very similar way to how ML training algorithms like gradient descent will select for artificial intelligences that excel at a single goal: minimizing some cost function. But a lot of humans have still ended up adopting goals which don’t seem to align with the primary goal (e.g. donating kidneys to strangers, or using contraception), and there’s every reason to expect AGI to be the same (I think in AI safety they use the term ‘mesa-optimization’ to describe this phenomenon...?) Now I think in AI safety this is usually talked about as a bad thing. Maybe AGI could end up being a mesa-optimizer for some bad goal that their designer never considered. But it seems like a lot of your argument rests on there being this big distinction between AI training, and evolution. If the two things are in fact very similar, then that again seems to be a reason for some optimism. Humans were created through an optimization procedure that optimized for a primary goal, but we now often act in moral ways, even if this conflicts with that goal. Maybe the same could happen for AGIs!

  To be clear, I don’t think this is a watertight argument that AGIs will be moral, I think it’s an argument for just being really uncertain. For example, maybe utilitarianism is a kind of natural idea that any intelligent being who feels some form of compassion might arrive at (this seems very plausible to me), but maybe a pure utilitarian superintelligence would actually be a bad outcome! Maybe we don’t want the universe filled with organisms on heroin! Or for everyone else to be sacrificed to an AGI utility monster.

  I can see lots of reasons for worry, but I think there’s reasons for optimism too.

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 28, 2025, 1:57 PM

  6 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: How to cam­paign about the re­cent UK aid cuts

  I’m feeling inspired by Anneliese Dodds’ decision to resign as a government minister over this issue, which is grabbing the headlines today! Before that I’d been feeling very disappointed about the lack of pushback I was seeing in news coverage.

  I haven’t written my letter to my MP yet, but I’ve remembered that I am actually a member of the Labour party. Would a letter to my local Labour MP have even more impact if I also cancelled my Labour membership in protest? Ok, I might not be a government minister, I’m just an ordinary party member who hasn’t attended a party event in years, but still, they get some money from me at the moment!

  Or would cancelling the membership mean I have less influence on future issues, and so ultimately be counter-productive? Any thoughts?

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 21, 2025, 6:15 PM

  4 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: Bench­mark Perfor­mance is a Poor Mea­sure of Gen­er­al­is­able AI Rea­son­ing Capabilities

  In addition, o3 was also trained on the public data of ARC-AI, a dataset comprised of abstract visual reasoning problems in the style of Raven’s progressive matrices [52]. When combined with the large amount of targeted research this benchmark has attracted in recent years, the high scores achieved by o3 should not be considered a reliable metric of general reasoning capabilities.

  This take seems to contradict Francois Chollet’s own write-up of the o3 ARC results, where he describes the results as:

  a genuine breakthrough, marking a qualitative shift in AI capabilities compared to the prior limitations of LLMs. o3 is a system capable of adapting to tasks it has never encountered before

  (taken from your reference 52 , emphasis mine)

  You could write this off as him wanting to talk-up the significance of his own benchmark, but I’m not sure that would be right. He has been very publicly sceptical of the ability of LLMs to scale to general intelligence, so this is a kind of concession from him. And he had already laid the groundwork in his Dwarkesh Patel interview to explain away high ARC performance as cheating if it tackled the problem in the wrong way, cracking it through memorization via an alternative route (e.g. auto-generating millions of ARC-like problems and training on those). He could easily have dismissed the o3 results on those grounds, but chose not to, which made an impression on me (a non-expert trying to decide how to weigh up the opions of different experts). Presumably he is aware that o3 trained on the public dataset, and doesn’t view that as cheating. The public dataset is small, and the problems are explicitly designed to resist memorization, requiring general intelligence. Being told the solution to earlier problems is not supposed to help you solve later problems.

  What’s your take on this? Do you disagree with the write up in [52]? Or do you think I’m mischaracterizing his position (there are plenty of caveats outside the bit I selectively quoted as well—so maybe I am)?

  The fact that the human-level ARC performance could only be achieved by extremely high inference-time compute costs seems significant too. Why would we get inference time scaling if chain-of-thought consisted of not much more than post-hoc rationalizations, instead of real reasoning?

  For context, I used to be pretty sympathetic to the “LLMs do most of the impressive stuff by memorization and are pretty terrible at novel tasks” position, and still think this is a good model for the non-reasoning LLMs, but my views have changed a lot since the reasoning models, particularly because of the ARC results.

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 20, 2025, 8:09 AM

  10 points

  1 ∶ 0

  on: Me­tac­u­lus Q4 AI Bench­mark­ing: Bots Are Clos­ing The Gap

  This is an interesting analysis!

  I agree with MaxRa’s point. When I skim read “Metaculus pro forecasters were better than the bot team, but not with statistical significance” I immediately internalised that the message was “bots are getting almost as good as pros” (a message I probably already got from the post title!) and it was only when I forced myself to slow down and read it more carefully that I realised this is not what this result means (for example you could have done this study only using a single question, and this stated result could have been true, but likely not tell you much either way about their relative performance). I only then noticed that both main results were null results. I’m then not sure if this actually supports the ‘Bots are closing the gap’ claim or not..?

  The histogram plot is really useful, and the points of reference are helpful too. I’d be interested to know what the histogram would look like if you compared pro human forecasters to average human forecasters on a similar set of questions? How big an effect do we see there? Or maybe to get more directly at what I’m wondering: how do bots compare to average human forecasters? Are they better with statistical significance, or not? Has this study already been done?

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 18, 2025, 6:30 PM

  3 points

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Alfredo Parra 🔸’s comment on: Indi­rect re­al­ism illus­trated (and why it mat­ters so much for con­scious­ness de­bates)

  Thanks for the link, I’ve just given your previous post a read. It is great! Extremely well written! Thanks for sharing!

  I have a few thoughts on it I thought I’d just share. Would be interested to read a reply but don’t worry if it would be too time consuming.

  • I agree that your laser example is a good response to the “replace one neuron at a time” argument, and that at least in the context of that argument, computational complexity does matter. You can’t replace components of a brain with simulated parts if the simulated parts can’t keep up with the rest. If neurons are not individually replaceable, or at least not individually replaceable with something that can match the speed of a real neuron, (and I accept this seems possible) then I agree that the ‘replace one neuron at a time’ thought experiment fails.

  • Computational complexity still seems pretty irrelevant for the other thought experiments: whether we can simulate a whole brain on a computer, and whether we can simulate a brain with a pencil and paper. Sure, it’s going to take a very long time to get results, but why does that matter? It’s a thought experiment anyway.

  • I agree with you that the answer to the question “is this system conscious?” should be observer independent. But I didn’t really follow why this belief is incompatible with functionalism?

  I like the ‘replace one neuron at a time’ thought-experiment, but accept it has flaws. For me, it’s that we could in principle simulate a brain on a digital computer and have it behave identically, that convinces me of functionalism. I can’t grok how some system could behave identically but its thoughts not ‘exist’.

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 17, 2025, 5:36 PM

  3 points

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Alfredo Parra 🔸’s comment on: Indi­rect re­al­ism illus­trated (and why it mat­ters so much for con­scious­ness de­bates)

  Thanks for the reply, this definitely helps!

  The brain operating according to the known laws of physics doesn’t imply we can simulate it on a modern computer (assuming you mean a digital computer). A trivial example is certain quantum phenomena. Digital hardware doesn’t cut it.

  Could you explain what you mean by this..? I wasn’t aware that there were any quantum phenomena that could not be simulated on a digital computer? Where do the non-computable functions appear in quantum theory? (My background: I have a PhD in theoretical physics, which certainly doesn’t make me an expert on this question, but I’d be very surprised if this was true and I’d never heard about it! And I’d be a bit embarrassed if it was a fact considered ‘trivial’ and I was unaware of it!)

  There are quantum processes that can’t be simulated efficiently on a digital computer, but that is a different question.

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 17, 2025, 7:27 AM

  5 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: Indi­rect re­al­ism illus­trated (and why it mat­ters so much for con­scious­ness de­bates)

  I don’t think I fully understand exactly what you are arguing for here, but would be interested in asking a few questions to help me understand it better, if you’re happy to answer?

  1. If the human brain operates according to the known laws of physics, then in principle we could simulate it on a modern computer, and it would behave identically to the real thing (i.e. would respond in the same way to the same stimuli, and claim to see a purple ball with grandma’s face on it if given simulated LSD). Would such a brain simulation have qualia according to your view? Yes, no, or you don’t think the brain operates according to known laws of physics?

  2. If (1) is answered no, what would happen if you gradually replaced a biological brain with a simulated brain bit by bit, replacing sections of the cells one at a time with a machine running a simulation of its counterpart? What would that feel like for the person? Their consciousness would slowly be disappearing but they would not outwardly behave any differently, which seems very odd.

  3. If (1) is answered yes, does that mean that whatever this strange property of the EM field is, it will necessarily be possessed by the inner workings of the computer as well, when this simulation is run?

  4. If (3) is answered yes, what if you instead ran the simulation with a pencil and paper, instead of an electronic computer. Would that simulated brain have qualia? You can execute any computer program with a pencil and paper (using paper as the memory and doing the necessary instructions yourself with the pencil) if you have enough time. But it seems much clearer here that there will be nothing unusual happening in the EM field when you do this simulation.

  5. If all the fields of physics are made of qualia, then everything is made of qualia, including the electron field, the quark fields, etc?

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 14, 2025, 8:02 AM

  3 points

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Benjamin_Todd’s comment on: Teach­ing AI to rea­son: this year’s most im­por­tant story

  Ah, that’s a really interesting way of looking at it, that you can trade training-compute for inference-compute to only bring forward capabilities that would have come about anyway via simply training larger models. I hadn’t quite got this message from your post.

  My understanding of Francois Chollet’s position (he’s where I first heard the comparison of logarithmic inference-time scaling to brute force search—before I saw Toby’s thread) is that RL on chain of thought has unlocked genuinely new capabilities that would have been impossible simply by scaling traditional LLMs (or maybe it has to be chain of thought combined with tree-search—but whatever the magic ingredient is he has acknowledged that o3 has it).

  Of course this could just be his way of explaining why the o3 ARC results don’t prove his earlier positions wrong. People don’t like to admit when they’re wrong! But this view still seems plausible to me, it contradicts the ‘trading off’ narrative, and I’d be extremely interested to know which picture is correct. I’ll have to read that paper!

  But I guess maybe it doesn’t matter a lot in practice, in terms of the impact that reasoning models are capable of having.

• tobycrisford 🔸Feb 13, 2025, 9:41 PM

  7 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: Teach­ing AI to rea­son: this year’s most im­por­tant story

  This was a thought-provoking and quite scary summary of what reasoning models might mean.

  I think this sentence may have a mistake though:

  “you can have GPT-o1 think 100-times longer than normal, and get linear increases in accuracy on coding problems.”

  Doesn’t the graph show that the accuracy gains are only logarithmic? The x-axis is a log scale.

  This logarithmic relationship between performance and test-time compute is characteristic of brute-force search, and maybe is the one part of this story that means the consequences won’t be quite so explosive? Or have I misunderstood?

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 22, 2024, 11:11 AM

  1 point

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Hawk.Yang 🔸’s comment on: o3

  It might be fair to say that the o3 improvements are something fundamentally different to simple scaling, and that Chollet is still correct in his ‘LLMs will not simply scale to AGI’ prediction. I didn’t mean in my comment to suggest he was wrong about that.

  I could imagine someone criticizing him for exaggerating how far away we were from coming up with the necessary new ideas, given the o3 results, but I’m not so interested in the debate about exactly how right or wrong the predictions of this one person were.

  The interesting thing for me is: whether he was wrong, or whether he was right but o3 does represent a fundamentally different kind of model, the upshot for how seriously we should take o3 seems the same! It feels like a pretty big deal!

  He could have reacted to this news by criticizing the way that o3 achieved its results. He already said in the Dwarkesh Patel interview that someone beating ARC wouldn’t necessarily imply progress towards general intelligence if the way they achieved it went against the spirit of the task. When I clicked the link in this post, I thought it likely I was about to read an argument along those lines. But that’s not what I got. Instead he was acknowledging that this was important progress.

  I’m by no means an expert, but timelines in the 2030s still seems pretty close to me! I’d have thought, based on arguments from people like Chollet, that we might be a bit further off than that (although only with the low confidence of a layperson trying to interpret the competing predictions of experts who seem to radically disagree with each other).

  Given all the problems you mention, and the high costs still involved in running this on simple tasks, I agree it still seems many years away. But previously I’d have put a fairly significant probability on AGI not being possible this century (as well as assigning a significant probability to it happening very soon, basically ending up highly uncertain). But it feels like these results make the idea that AGI is still 100 years away seem much less plausible than it was before.

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 21, 2024, 7:00 AM

  14 points

  1 ∶ 4

  on: o3

  The ARC performance is a huge update for me.

  I’ve previously found Francois Chollet’s arguments that LLMs are unlikely to scale to AGI pretty convincing. Mainly because he had created an until-now unbeaten benchmark to back those arguments up.

  But reading his linked write-up, he describes this as “not merely an incremental improvement, but a genuine breakthrough”. He does not admit he was wrong, but instead paints o3 as something fundamentally different to previous LLM-based AIs, which for the purpose of assessing the significance of o3, amounts to the same thing!

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 18, 2024, 1:41 PM

  12 points

  1 ∶ 0

  on: Fund Causes Open Phil Un­der­funds (In­stead of Your Most Preferred Causes)

  I think the presentation of this argument here misses some important considerations:

  • The way that you want us to act with respect to OP is already the way that OP is trying to act with respect to the rest of the world.

  • The same considerations that lead OP to choose not to allocate all their funds to the highest expected value cause should also be relevant for individual donors, and could legitimately mean that they should diversify as well. There seems to be an inconsistency in saying these considerations are valid for OP but not for individuals.

  • Even if you are a pure marginal EV maximizer (you think these considerations are invalid for OP and for invidiauls), OP’s donations won’t always be relevant to your donation decisions, and if they are, it is the absolute amounts donated, rather than the percentages, that are relevant.

  The way that you want us to act with respect to OP is already the way that OP is trying to act with respect to the rest of the world

  EAs don’t fund the most important causes, based purely on scale (otherwise tonnes of things EAs ignore would score highly, e.g. vaccination programs in rich countries). A core part of EA is looking for causes which are neglected. We look for the areas that are receiving the least funding relative to what they would receive in our ideal world, because these are likely to be the areas where our donations will have the highest marginal impact.

  This is the reply to people who argue “oh you want local charities to disappear and to send all the money to malaria nets”. The reply is: “No! In my ideal world, malaria nets would quickly attract all the funding they need. Then there would still be plenty of money left over for other things. But I think I should look at the world I actually live in, recognize that malaria nets are outrageously underfunded, and give all my resources there.”

  So in a sense, the argument you are making here isn’t anything new. You are just saying we should try to act towards other EAs in a similar way to how EAs as a group act towards the rest of the world. And I don’t disagree with this. But I think we should go all the way. I think we should treat other EAs in the same way that we treat the rest of the world. If I understand your argument correctly, you are trying to draw a distinction between the EA community and everyone else.

  The same considerations that lead OP to choose not to allocate all their funds to the highest expected value cause should also be relevant for individual donors

  OP do not allocate all of their funding to the ‘best’ cause. Even if OP were a pure EV maximizer, they might have valid reasons not to do this, because they have such a big budget. It may be that diminishing marginal returns mean that the ‘best’ cause stops being the best once OP have given a certain level of funds to it, at which point they should switch to funding another cause instead.

  But my impression is that this is not OP’s reason for donating to multiple causes (or at least not their only reason). They are not purely trying to maximize expected value, or at least not in a naive first order way. One reason to diversify might be donor risk aversion, like you mention (e.g. you want to maximize EV while bounding the risk that you have no positive impact at all), and there are plenty of other considerations that might come into it too, e.g. sense of duty to a certain cause, reputation, belief in unquantifiable uncertainty and impossibility of making certain cause comparisons etc

  But if these considerations are valid for OP then they should also be relevant for individual donors. For example, if an individual donor wants to bound the risk that they have no impact, then that might well mean not donating everything to the cause they think is most underfunded by OP. It would only make sense to do this if they had a weird type of risk aversion where they want to bound the risk that the EA community as a whole has no positive impact, but are unconcerned about their own donations’ risk. This seems very arbitrary! Either they should care about the risk for their own donations, and should diversify, or they should be concerned with all of humanity’s donations, in which case OP should not be diversifying either!

  Pure EV maximizers don’t care about percentages anyway

  You could bite the bullet and say that neither OP nor individual donors should be diversifying their donations (except when faced with diminishing marginal utility). For these individual donors, they should be donating everything to one cause (and probably one charity unless they have a lot to give!) But even for these donors, it’s not which causes OP underfund that really matters. It’s what causes all of humanity underfund. So it is not the percentages of OP’s funding allocation that matter, it’s the absolute value.

  If OP are a relatively small player in a cause area (global health..?) then their donation decisions are unlikely to be especially relevant to the individual donor. If they thought global health was the top cause before OP donations were taken into account, it probably still will be afterwards. But if OP are a relatively big player (animal welfare..?) then their donations are more relevant, due to diminishing marginal utility. But it is the absolute amount of funding they are moving, not the percentages, which will determine this.

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 17, 2024, 8:06 AM

  1 point

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Sam Tucker-Davis’s comment on: Why our goal should be to end fac­tory farm­ing within our life­time, and why that goal is re­al­is­ti­cally achievable

  I’ve been vegan for 11 years, and to me the growth felt faster in the first 5 years than it did in the second. This could easily just be due to my changing life circumstances (first 5 years as a student and living with other vegans), but that’s my personal anecdotal evidence. Recently it also seems like all the vegan restaurants have been closing in my city (Manchester, UK) although hopefully(?) that is more to do with the economic situation than with a decline in veganism.

  The link you’ve shared on the proportion of the population identifying as vegan is encouraging, but I’m finding it hard to figure out the data source for their graph. I’m sure I saw some data shared by someone on the EA forum recently that suggested the growth of veganism had been stagnating recently, but not sure how to find that now!

  This seems like a really important question though and I’d love to read an in-depth analysis of what the answer is likely to be.

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 10, 2024, 1:27 PM

  3 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: Are fish­ing and agri­cul­ture bad for an­i­mals?

  This is a fascinating analysis, but if I understand it correctly, you are estimating the impact of fishing and agriculture on average wild animal wellbeing (which you estimate by its effect on the death rate), not total wellbeing, as the first sentence of your post states. Is that correct?

  This seems important, as I don’t think there are many who would defend the idea that average welfare is what matters in population ethics? So I’m not sure how important the considerations you point out are. The change in population size seems like it’s going to be the much more important effect here.

  It also doesn’t seem obvious to me that we should be able to estimate the impact of fishing or agriculture on average welfare purely by its impact on the death rate. Aren’t there lots of other ways they could impact wild animal welfare too (e.g. by changing the cause of death for wild-animals)?

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 4, 2024, 1:19 PM

  1 point

  0 ∶ 0

  on: Why our goal should be to end fac­tory farm­ing within our life­time, and why that goal is re­al­is­ti­cally achievable

  I hope you are right, but is there evidence that veganism is growing exponentially?

• tobycrisford 🔸Dec 3, 2024, 5:42 PM

  2 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: [Linkpost] Will MacAskill coau­thors new book ti­tled “An In­tro­duc­tion to Utili­tar­i­anism”, with Richard Chap­pell and Dar­ius Meissner

  Same content on bluesky, for those avoiding twitter now: https://​​bsky.app/​​profile/​​wdmacaskill.bsky.social/​​post/​​3lcdlb4lbdk2m