There’s a big pool of silent donors who give to GiveWell recommended charities. They don’t participate actively in the community so you never hear from them.
So I agree that if you care about “actively participating EAs” then the percentage who give to meta-charities is likely higher.
It’s not clear which figure is most relevant. It makes sense that the people most involved in the community are in the best relative position to support the EA orgs because they know the most about them. It also makes sense that the more persuaded people will be more inclined to support meta-charities. Finally, large donors should give more to startups because they have more time to research (and can specialise in being meta-charity donors); small donors should stick to GiveWell recommended charities. Overall, the large active EA donors should give above the 5% baseline to pull the overall ratio up.
My understanding was that the majority of Givewell donors have essentially nothing to do with EA whatsoever (though this seems to be changing by the sounds of the board meeting Sebastian mentioned linked to above). Is the claim that there’s an intermediate group who, say, have heard of and would identify with EA and donated to GW-recommended charities but don’t actively engage? That doesn’t sound crazy.
I agree with all of the latter points, but again my impression was that donations are already very top heavy. Some estimates that might help pin this disagreement more precisely:
What percentage of donations by dollars do you think come from people donating more than $30k annually?
What percentage do you think those people give to meta-charity?
If your answers are, say, 30% and 20%, that already gets you above 5%, and of course that’s a lower bound at this point.
On the silent donors, I’m not sure. If you’re giving a lot of money to a GiveWell recommended charity or you’re a member of GWWC, then functionally you’re an EA (in my definition). But I agree many of them might not explicitly identify as EAs. I do think there’s a significant intermediate group, but I’m not sure how many.
Perhaps more relevant, even if they don’t identify as EA, where the silent donors give is influenced by EA. So I think there’s still a good case for including them in the money moved.
If we can persuade a big group of people to give to AMF but not metacharities, then it makes sense to do that, and then for the people who are interested in giving to either give to meta charity.
Perhaps more relevant, even if they don’t identify as EA, where the silent donors give is influenced by EA. So I think there’s still a good case for including them in the money moved.
Can you explain why you’re thinking that they’re influenced by EA? It seems at least equally plausible that they’re influenced by GiveWell, which is distinct from most EA meta-orgs, and operates using a different model. Are you thinking that there’s another influence on them, like 80k or GWWC?
They’re influenced by GiveWell, and GiveWell is part of EA.
Or even if you don’t think GiveWell is part of EA, they’re very similar to EA in their approach, and many of the staff are explicitly EAs or supporters of EA. I think GiveWell has also been influenced by other groups in EA, though it’s hard to tell.
I agree that GiveWell could be considered part of EA. Ultimately I see that as a merely semantic question. My and I think AGB’s point is that the donors who follow GiveWell aren’t self-identified members of the “EA movement”, and aren’t giving because of EA outreach specifically. It appears that organizations doing EA outreach specifically get much more than 5% of the money donated by members of the “EA movement” who were inspired to give by those organizations.
There’s a big pool of silent donors who give to GiveWell recommended charities. They don’t participate actively in the community so you never hear from them.
So I agree that if you care about “actively participating EAs” then the percentage who give to meta-charities is likely higher.
It’s not clear which figure is most relevant. It makes sense that the people most involved in the community are in the best relative position to support the EA orgs because they know the most about them. It also makes sense that the more persuaded people will be more inclined to support meta-charities. Finally, large donors should give more to startups because they have more time to research (and can specialise in being meta-charity donors); small donors should stick to GiveWell recommended charities. Overall, the large active EA donors should give above the 5% baseline to pull the overall ratio up.
My understanding was that the majority of Givewell donors have essentially nothing to do with EA whatsoever (though this seems to be changing by the sounds of the board meeting Sebastian mentioned linked to above). Is the claim that there’s an intermediate group who, say, have heard of and would identify with EA and donated to GW-recommended charities but don’t actively engage? That doesn’t sound crazy.
I agree with all of the latter points, but again my impression was that donations are already very top heavy. Some estimates that might help pin this disagreement more precisely:
What percentage of donations by dollars do you think come from people donating more than $30k annually?
What percentage do you think those people give to meta-charity?
If your answers are, say, 30% and 20%, that already gets you above 5%, and of course that’s a lower bound at this point.
On the silent donors, I’m not sure. If you’re giving a lot of money to a GiveWell recommended charity or you’re a member of GWWC, then functionally you’re an EA (in my definition). But I agree many of them might not explicitly identify as EAs. I do think there’s a significant intermediate group, but I’m not sure how many.
Perhaps more relevant, even if they don’t identify as EA, where the silent donors give is influenced by EA. So I think there’s still a good case for including them in the money moved. If we can persuade a big group of people to give to AMF but not metacharities, then it makes sense to do that, and then for the people who are interested in giving to either give to meta charity.
Can you explain why you’re thinking that they’re influenced by EA? It seems at least equally plausible that they’re influenced by GiveWell, which is distinct from most EA meta-orgs, and operates using a different model. Are you thinking that there’s another influence on them, like 80k or GWWC?
They’re influenced by GiveWell, and GiveWell is part of EA.
Or even if you don’t think GiveWell is part of EA, they’re very similar to EA in their approach, and many of the staff are explicitly EAs or supporters of EA. I think GiveWell has also been influenced by other groups in EA, though it’s hard to tell.
I agree that GiveWell could be considered part of EA. Ultimately I see that as a merely semantic question. My and I think AGB’s point is that the donors who follow GiveWell aren’t self-identified members of the “EA movement”, and aren’t giving because of EA outreach specifically. It appears that organizations doing EA outreach specifically get much more than 5% of the money donated by members of the “EA movement” who were inspired to give by those organizations.