An attempt to help more EAs “get it”: Almost every old-school vegan or vegetarian should instantly “get” that people will just lie about you. I think that most of us have experienced growing resentment toward us, built on false claims that we are rude about animal products, insulting, hate humans, etc. Or if we haven’t experienced this ourselves, surely we have seen fellow veg*ns share stories like “I tried to be so polite at Thanksgiving.. I brought my own meal and didn’t request anyone else make modifications, but now my family is saying I made a big fuss and was rude, and I should apologize?” The meat-eaters who say such things may genuinely believe their claims, IDK, but it certainly looks like (years ago anyway, before veganism entered the overton window more) some people would just lie so they’d have a dramatic story to tell about vegans and cement their own ingroup status or so they’d have a seeming-reason to dismiss animal welfare asks and play the victim themselves and cement their control for future interactions. There are many reasons, some conscious and some unconscious, why people lie, but they do lie and those lies even become big cultural narratives about who to stay away from (vegans, EAs, Aella).
I have better examples of lies from my own life, like rumors going around my highschool and merciless bullying that I was a slut (but the truth was I had actually been raped), but I bring up the vegan thing as an attempt to help most EAs “get it”. I know that the hate and alienation I experienced for being vegan got bad enough for me that I left my entire ingroup (DC Burning Man folks, who themselves constantly talked about SJ causes which were more in the overton window), and I began to avoid meat-eaters entirely (and then I actually became a radical vegan lmao, but that’s another story).
I think there are 2 groups: (1) the people who lie first: I think most of these are raised in a world where linguistics are so divorced from the truth that they are used to stating feelings and perceptions as fact, even if they have the inkling they are being dramatic or jumping to conclusions. And it does not even occur to them that they are supposed to say stuff with precision, and that curtailing your tongue’s impulses in favor of speaking truthfully is even an option anyone else is taking seriously. They think getting things roughly right is enough and think that is what everyone else is doing. And the other side of the coin is (2) people who wouldn’t lie themselves, but are thirsty for a salacious story about their outgroup, and will spread the lie. I think this basically serves as proving of outgroup vs ingroup, and ties into what @firinn notes that weirdos are easier to lie about.
Let EAs not forget that most people still fall into one of these two groups, and very few people fall into a “proactive fact-checking group” or “use nuance in favor of truth” group. So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that lies happen and even become big well-known cultural “truths” all the flipping time.
An attempt to help more EAs “get it”: Almost every old-school vegan or vegetarian should instantly “get” that people will just lie about you. I think that most of us have experienced growing resentment toward us, built on false claims that we are rude about animal products, insulting, hate humans, etc. Or if we haven’t experienced this ourselves, surely we have seen fellow veg*ns share stories like “I tried to be so polite at Thanksgiving.. I brought my own meal and didn’t request anyone else make modifications, but now my family is saying I made a big fuss and was rude, and I should apologize?” The meat-eaters who say such things may genuinely believe their claims, IDK, but it certainly looks like (years ago anyway, before veganism entered the overton window more) some people would just lie so they’d have a dramatic story to tell about vegans and cement their own ingroup status or so they’d have a seeming-reason to dismiss animal welfare asks and play the victim themselves and cement their control for future interactions. There are many reasons, some conscious and some unconscious, why people lie, but they do lie and those lies even become big cultural narratives about who to stay away from (vegans, EAs, Aella).
I have better examples of lies from my own life, like rumors going around my highschool and merciless bullying that I was a slut (but the truth was I had actually been raped), but I bring up the vegan thing as an attempt to help most EAs “get it”. I know that the hate and alienation I experienced for being vegan got bad enough for me that I left my entire ingroup (DC Burning Man folks, who themselves constantly talked about SJ causes which were more in the overton window), and I began to avoid meat-eaters entirely (and then I actually became a radical vegan lmao, but that’s another story).
I think there are 2 groups: (1) the people who lie first: I think most of these are raised in a world where linguistics are so divorced from the truth that they are used to stating feelings and perceptions as fact, even if they have the inkling they are being dramatic or jumping to conclusions. And it does not even occur to them that they are supposed to say stuff with precision, and that curtailing your tongue’s impulses in favor of speaking truthfully is even an option anyone else is taking seriously. They think getting things roughly right is enough and think that is what everyone else is doing. And the other side of the coin is (2) people who wouldn’t lie themselves, but are thirsty for a salacious story about their outgroup, and will spread the lie. I think this basically serves as proving of outgroup vs ingroup, and ties into what @firinn notes that weirdos are easier to lie about.
Let EAs not forget that most people still fall into one of these two groups, and very few people fall into a “proactive fact-checking group” or “use nuance in favor of truth” group. So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that lies happen and even become big well-known cultural “truths” all the flipping time.
>Almost every old-school vegan or vegetarian should instantly “get” that people will just lie about you.
I was sure you were going to talk about other vegans attacking you for not being “pure” enough.