To some extent, I agree with this, but I also think it overlooks an important component of how defamation law is used in practice — which is not to hold people to high epistemic norms but instead to scare them out of harming your reputation regardless of the truth. This is something folks who work on corporate campaigns for farmed animal welfare run into all the time. And, because our legal system is imperfect, it often works. Brian Martin has a good write-up on the flaws in our legal system that contribute to this:
Cost: If you are sued for defamation, you could end up paying tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, even if you win. If you lose, you could face a massive pay-out on top of the fees.
The large costs, due especially to the cost of legal advice, mean that most people never sue for defamation. If you don’t have much money, you don’t have much chance against a rich opponent, whether you are suing them or they are suing you. Cases can go on for years. Judgements can be appealed. The costs become enormous. Only those with deep pockets can pursue such cases to the end.
The result is that defamation law is often used by the rich and powerful to deter criticisms. It is seldom helpful to ordinary people whose reputations are attacked unfairly.
Unpredictability:People say and write defamatory things all the time, but only a very few are threatened with defamation. Sometimes gross libels pass unchallenged while comparatively innocuous comments lead to major court actions. This unpredictability has a chilling effect on free speech. Writers, worried about defamation, cut out anything that might offend. Publishers, knowing how much it can cost to lose a case, have lawyers go through articles to cut out anything that might lead to a legal action. The result is a tremendous inhibition of free speech.
Complexity: Defamation law is so complex that most writers and publishers prefer to be safe than sorry, and do not publish things that are quite safe because they’re not sure. Judges and lawyers have excessive power because outsiders cannot understand how the law will be applied. Those who might desire to defend against a defamation suit without a lawyer are deterred by the complexities.
Slowness: Sometimes defamation cases are launched months after the statement in question. Cases often take years to resolve. This causes anxiety, especially for those sued, and deters free speech in the meantime. As the old saying goes, “Justice delayed is justice denied.”
I’m not saying this is what’s happening here — I have no idea about the details of any of these allegations. But what if someone did have additional private information about Nonlinear or the folks involved? Unless they are rich or have a sophisticated understanding of the law, the scary lawyer talk from Nonlinear here might deter them from talking about it at all, and I think that’s a really bad epistemic norm. This isn’t to say “the EA Forum should be completely insulated from defamation law” or anything, but in a high-trust community where people will respond to alternatives like publicly sharing counterevidence, threatening lawsuits seems like it might hinder, rather than help, epistemics.
To some extent, I agree with this, but I also think it overlooks an important component of how defamation law is used in practice — which is not to hold people to high epistemic norms but instead to scare them out of harming your reputation regardless of the truth. This is something folks who work on corporate campaigns for farmed animal welfare run into all the time. And, because our legal system is imperfect, it often works. Brian Martin has a good write-up on the flaws in our legal system that contribute to this:
I’m not saying this is what’s happening here — I have no idea about the details of any of these allegations. But what if someone did have additional private information about Nonlinear or the folks involved? Unless they are rich or have a sophisticated understanding of the law, the scary lawyer talk from Nonlinear here might deter them from talking about it at all, and I think that’s a really bad epistemic norm. This isn’t to say “the EA Forum should be completely insulated from defamation law” or anything, but in a high-trust community where people will respond to alternatives like publicly sharing counterevidence, threatening lawsuits seems like it might hinder, rather than help, epistemics.