Yes I think. Conscious strategic deception is shady regardless of the goal being served, whereas a certain amount of self-deception is kind of inevitable.
I also do think most rationalists would object to demands that some other group didn’t invite left-wing speakers. (Maybe I’m too generous.) Like I think if there was some very left-wing speaker at an EA-adjacent animal activism conference, (edit:) and people wanted them disinvited as too controversial I think rationalists would mostly oppose that. I think they’d oppose a professor being deplatformrd from an academic conference for Black Power-style attacks on white people.
More generally, I think they have a genuinely content-neutral dislike of people being told they can’t say true (as they see it) things because they are offensive. Maybe I am typical-minding here, but my experience growing up with autism in a neurotypical world is that a distates for white lies, and people fooling themselves about what is true to avoid non-conformity, or upsetting group bonding, or just to avoid feeling bad about themselves, is a central experience for people with a broadly autistic type personality. (Never mind whether they are autistic enough to be diagnosable.) I think this far predates people forming their specific political views, rather than being a post-hoc excuse for them. (Actually I also suspect a lot of the incredibly high value rationalists put on “rationality” as they understand is them compensating psychologically for feelings of social inferiority people with this sort of personality type often grow up with. But maybe that’s just me!).
Where I do think they are being (unconsciously) a bit disingenuous is when they imply that the presence of far-right views in their community is just a product of their commitment to openess or imply that they are just as open to radical left or super woke ideas. (Maybe that’s not quite the way to put it: I feel like they’d say something directionally like that but milder and more plausible.)
I appreciate you sharing your experience. It’s different from mine and so it can be that I’m judging too many people too harshly based on this difference.
That said, I suspect that it’s not enough to have this aversion. The racism I often see requires a degree of indifference to the consequences of one’s actions and discourse, or maybe a strong naivety that makes one unaware of those consequences.
I know I can’t generalize from one person, but if you see yourself as an example of the different mindset that might lead to the behaviour I observed—notice that you yourself seem to be very aware of the consequences of your actions, and every bit of expression from you I’ve seen has been the opposite of what I’m condemning.
Edit: for those downvoting, I would appreciate feedback on this comment, either here or in a PM.
Maybe not consciously. Does that make it any better?
Yes I think. Conscious strategic deception is shady regardless of the goal being served, whereas a certain amount of self-deception is kind of inevitable.
I also do think most rationalists would object to demands that some other group didn’t invite left-wing speakers. (Maybe I’m too generous.) Like I think if there was some very left-wing speaker at an EA-adjacent animal activism conference, (edit:) and people wanted them disinvited as too controversial I think rationalists would mostly oppose that. I think they’d oppose a professor being deplatformrd from an academic conference for Black Power-style attacks on white people.
More generally, I think they have a genuinely content-neutral dislike of people being told they can’t say true (as they see it) things because they are offensive. Maybe I am typical-minding here, but my experience growing up with autism in a neurotypical world is that a distates for white lies, and people fooling themselves about what is true to avoid non-conformity, or upsetting group bonding, or just to avoid feeling bad about themselves, is a central experience for people with a broadly autistic type personality. (Never mind whether they are autistic enough to be diagnosable.) I think this far predates people forming their specific political views, rather than being a post-hoc excuse for them. (Actually I also suspect a lot of the incredibly high value rationalists put on “rationality” as they understand is them compensating psychologically for feelings of social inferiority people with this sort of personality type often grow up with. But maybe that’s just me!).
Where I do think they are being (unconsciously) a bit disingenuous is when they imply that the presence of far-right views in their community is just a product of their commitment to openess or imply that they are just as open to radical left or super woke ideas. (Maybe that’s not quite the way to put it: I feel like they’d say something directionally like that but milder and more plausible.)
I appreciate you sharing your experience. It’s different from mine and so it can be that I’m judging too many people too harshly based on this difference.
That said, I suspect that it’s not enough to have this aversion. The racism I often see requires a degree of indifference to the consequences of one’s actions and discourse, or maybe a strong naivety that makes one unaware of those consequences.
I know I can’t generalize from one person, but if you see yourself as an example of the different mindset that might lead to the behaviour I observed—notice that you yourself seem to be very aware of the consequences of your actions, and every bit of expression from you I’ve seen has been the opposite of what I’m condemning.
Edit: for those downvoting, I would appreciate feedback on this comment, either here or in a PM.