I suspect that happiness and well-being are uncorrelated. Just a guess. I am biased as I believe I have grown as a result of changes which were the result of suffering. Your point is valid though—if we could control our environment would altruists seek to create an opiate-type effect on all people? I guess it’s a question that doesn’t need an answer anytime soon.
I suspect that happiness and well-being are uncorrelated.
How are you defining wellbeing such that it’s uncorrelated with happiness?
I am biased as I believe I have grown as a result of changes which were the result of suffering.
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I believe you. I think that probably every human and most animals have, at some point, learned something useful from an experience that involved suffering. I have, you have, all EAs have, everyone has. Negative subjective wellbeing arising from maladaptive behavior is evolutionarily useful. Natural selection favored those that responded to negative experiences, and did so by learning.
I just think it’s sad and shitty that the world is that way. I would very much prefer a world where we could all have equally or more intense and diverse positive experiences without suffering for them. I know that is not possible (or close to it) right now, but I refuse to let the limitations of my capabilities drive me to self-deception.
I think I understand your point. Opiates have a lot of negative connotations. Maybe a nervous system whose pleasure sensors are constantly triggered is a better example. I should have said that I am biased by the fact that I live in an environment where this isn’t possible. You explained it more simply.
Well-being is very tricky to define, isn’t it? I like it a lot more than ‘maximizing happiness’ or ‘minimizing suffering,’ which was mostly what inspired the OP. I guess we don’t know enough about it to define it perfectly, but as Bill said, do we need to?
I suspect that happiness and well-being are uncorrelated. Just a guess. I am biased as I believe I have grown as a result of changes which were the result of suffering. Your point is valid though—if we could control our environment would altruists seek to create an opiate-type effect on all people? I guess it’s a question that doesn’t need an answer anytime soon.
How are you defining wellbeing such that it’s uncorrelated with happiness?
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I believe you. I think that probably every human and most animals have, at some point, learned something useful from an experience that involved suffering. I have, you have, all EAs have, everyone has. Negative subjective wellbeing arising from maladaptive behavior is evolutionarily useful. Natural selection favored those that responded to negative experiences, and did so by learning.
I just think it’s sad and shitty that the world is that way. I would very much prefer a world where we could all have equally or more intense and diverse positive experiences without suffering for them. I know that is not possible (or close to it) right now, but I refuse to let the limitations of my capabilities drive me to self-deception.
(my views are my own, not my employer’s)
I think I understand your point. Opiates have a lot of negative connotations. Maybe a nervous system whose pleasure sensors are constantly triggered is a better example. I should have said that I am biased by the fact that I live in an environment where this isn’t possible. You explained it more simply.
Well-being is very tricky to define, isn’t it? I like it a lot more than ‘maximizing happiness’ or ‘minimizing suffering,’ which was mostly what inspired the OP. I guess we don’t know enough about it to define it perfectly, but as Bill said, do we need to?