four interviewees who gave me some pretty helpful info would only talk to me on the condition that I not share my info with the CEA Community Health team. They didn’t trust (what I’m calling) the “institutionalized whisper network” to respect them, and some expected that it would hurt their ability to get funding to share any info.
Does the Community Health team have any concerns about this? Do they have a plan to regain trust?
Because otherwise I don’t see what the point of a Community Health team that inspires so much mistrust is. Even if the team was 100% competent, they could not do their jobs effectively without people trusting them.
Ex remote non-linear intern here: I wasn’t interviewed by Ben, but if I had been, then there’s information I would have shared with Ben, but not community health.
(Though I have less faith in Ben than before after seeing him publish without waiting a week)
(I don’t have any direct knowledge of the claims in the post as I was remote and had already finished my internship)
Though I have less faith in Ben than before after seeing him publish without waiting a week
It seems to me like by publishing it when he did, he acted according to Alice and Chloe’s interested who were protected by an earlier publication at a cost to other parties.
If I were in the position of someone like Alice or Chloe and think about whether or not to talk to Ben, that would make me more likely to talk to Ben not less.
I guess there’s a difference between being the person who was hurt vs. someone on the sidelines who has general information about how someone is like as a boss.
If you’ve been hurt, then you would probably want someone to fight for your side. If you’re on the sidelines, you might want someone who’s trying their best to form a fair picture overall. You might not want to share anything that could be used to paint an unfairly negative picture.
So would you say that although you have less faith in Ben than before, Alice and Chloe should have more faith in him? That seems wrong to me; I feel like “faith” in context should cash out as something less interpersonal than that? Like it should be a prediction about how Ben will act in future situations. Then “Alice should have more faith in Ben than me” sounds like a prediction that in future Ben will favor team Alice over team Chris; but that’s not a prediction I’d make and I don’t think it’s a prediction you’d make.
(It does seem reasonable to predict something like “in future, Ben will favor team person-who-was-hurt over team person-on-sidelines-who...”. But I don’t think that’s where you’re going with this either?)
I assume this trust difference is due to perceived or real value differences among different EAs, not rampant mistrust of CH among all EAs. Trust would only be shifted around rather than “solved” by having different people in CH roles.
I was not interviewed or involved in this situation but I have asked Julia and Catherine for support on other issues and felt supported. While Chris would share more things with Ben than he would share with CH, I would share more things with the current CH team than I would share with Ben. Chris trusts Ben more; I trust CH more.
I respect many things about Ben based on his writing (and I would be more willing to talk to him now after reading about his experiences with Alice and Chloe), but I would still reach out to CH team members first. It’s not a critique of Ben, it’s just a fact based on our different views and experiences. I assume there are plenty of people like me and plenty of people like Chris, though I don’t know the distribution.
Because EA includes people with a variety of values, uniformity of trust in just 2-3 individuals should not to be expected. That said, if someone could hire Ben to be a more trusted CH rep to the people who do trust him more, I’m sure they would. If we could do that for all the sub-communities in EA, we likely would. But Ben, and most others!, don’t want that job as he’s said.
Maybe Chris also prefers Ben’s independence from CEA. I do wonder if there’s an argument for making a CH investigative team more independent from CEA but that has pros and cons.
I don’t see a reason to think that dismantling a team that others do indeed trust will make things better.
Does the Community Health team have any concerns about this? Do they have a plan to regain trust?
Because otherwise I don’t see what the point of a Community Health team that inspires so much mistrust is. Even if the team was 100% competent, they could not do their jobs effectively without people trusting them.
Ex remote non-linear intern here: I wasn’t interviewed by Ben, but if I had been, then there’s information I would have shared with Ben, but not community health.
(Though I have less faith in Ben than before after seeing him publish without waiting a week)
(I don’t have any direct knowledge of the claims in the post as I was remote and had already finished my internship)
It seems to me like by publishing it when he did, he acted according to Alice and Chloe’s interested who were protected by an earlier publication at a cost to other parties.
If I were in the position of someone like Alice or Chloe and think about whether or not to talk to Ben, that would make me more likely to talk to Ben not less.
I guess there’s a difference between being the person who was hurt vs. someone on the sidelines who has general information about how someone is like as a boss.
If you’ve been hurt, then you would probably want someone to fight for your side. If you’re on the sidelines, you might want someone who’s trying their best to form a fair picture overall. You might not want to share anything that could be used to paint an unfairly negative picture.
So would you say that although you have less faith in Ben than before, Alice and Chloe should have more faith in him? That seems wrong to me; I feel like “faith” in context should cash out as something less interpersonal than that? Like it should be a prediction about how Ben will act in future situations. Then “Alice should have more faith in Ben than me” sounds like a prediction that in future Ben will favor team Alice over team Chris; but that’s not a prediction I’d make and I don’t think it’s a prediction you’d make.
(It does seem reasonable to predict something like “in future, Ben will favor team person-who-was-hurt over team person-on-sidelines-who...”. But I don’t think that’s where you’re going with this either?)
I assume this trust difference is due to perceived or real value differences among different EAs, not rampant mistrust of CH among all EAs. Trust would only be shifted around rather than “solved” by having different people in CH roles.
I was not interviewed or involved in this situation but I have asked Julia and Catherine for support on other issues and felt supported. While Chris would share more things with Ben than he would share with CH, I would share more things with the current CH team than I would share with Ben. Chris trusts Ben more; I trust CH more.
I respect many things about Ben based on his writing (and I would be more willing to talk to him now after reading about his experiences with Alice and Chloe), but I would still reach out to CH team members first. It’s not a critique of Ben, it’s just a fact based on our different views and experiences. I assume there are plenty of people like me and plenty of people like Chris, though I don’t know the distribution.
Because EA includes people with a variety of values, uniformity of trust in just 2-3 individuals should not to be expected. That said, if someone could hire Ben to be a more trusted CH rep to the people who do trust him more, I’m sure they would. If we could do that for all the sub-communities in EA, we likely would. But Ben, and most others!, don’t want that job as he’s said.
Maybe Chris also prefers Ben’s independence from CEA. I do wonder if there’s an argument for making a CH investigative team more independent from CEA but that has pros and cons.
I don’t see a reason to think that dismantling a team that others do indeed trust will make things better.
I wouldn’t surprise me if active Less Wrong members were more favourable disposed towards Ben than other people.