There are many considerations of relevance for these choices besides the risk of becoming or appearing like a cult. My sense is that this post may overestimate the importance of that risk relative to those other considerations.
I also think that in some cases, you could well argue that the sign is the opposite to that suggested here. E.g. frugality could rather be seen as evidence of cultishness.
Could you elaborate more on (some of) these considerations and why you think the cultishness risk is being overestimated relative to them?
My intuition is that it’s being generally underestimated, as at least two cults have already sprung from EA-adjacent circles (one, two). While I don’t think the ideas behind them are currently prevalent in EA, I do think the intellectual environments that brought them forth are, to some meaningful extent.
frugality could rather be seen as evidence of cultishness
I can’t speak for OP, but it looks to me more like a poor choice of words, as OP explicitly wrote:
the ”EA standard” needs to be comfortable enough to be considered by individuals of the general public. But grants should not be used to pay for excesses for a selected few (ie. fancy hotels, resorts, or domestic work).
(I’m not sure what’s meant by that last one). OP also suggested paying competitive salaries for EA jobs (which is what’s already happening, at least in the roles relevant to me).
This is not to say I think all of these ideas are necessarily good. On the contrary, becuase I think this consideration is important, I’d value dialogue on how to succeed in preventing it, and I don’t expect the first few ideas by anyone to all be right.
Could you elaborate more on (some of) these considerations and why you think the cultishness risk is being overestimated relative to them?
My intuition is that it’s being generally underestimated
I didn’t say the cultishness risk is generally overestimated. I said that this particular post overestimates that risk relative to other considerations, which are given little attention. I don’t think it’s right to suggest a long list of changes based on one consideration alone, while mostly neglecting other considerations. That is especially so since the cult notion is anyway kind of vague.
Do you think it would be better to not suggest any action, or to filter these suggestions without any input from other people? To me it reads like “here are some ideas for prevention” rather than “we must do all of these immediately”. Though at least some of them look obviously true, like encouraging having non-EA friendships and discouraging intimate relationships between senior and junior employees of EA orgs.
There are many considerations of relevance for these choices besides the risk of becoming or appearing like a cult. My sense is that this post may overestimate the importance of that risk relative to those other considerations.
I also think that in some cases, you could well argue that the sign is the opposite to that suggested here. E.g. frugality could rather be seen as evidence of cultishness.
Could you elaborate more on (some of) these considerations and why you think the cultishness risk is being overestimated relative to them?
My intuition is that it’s being generally underestimated, as at least two cults have already sprung from EA-adjacent circles (one, two). While I don’t think the ideas behind them are currently prevalent in EA, I do think the intellectual environments that brought them forth are, to some meaningful extent.
I can’t speak for OP, but it looks to me more like a poor choice of words, as OP explicitly wrote:
(I’m not sure what’s meant by that last one). OP also suggested paying competitive salaries for EA jobs (which is what’s already happening, at least in the roles relevant to me).
This is not to say I think all of these ideas are necessarily good. On the contrary, becuase I think this consideration is important, I’d value dialogue on how to succeed in preventing it, and I don’t expect the first few ideas by anyone to all be right.
I didn’t say the cultishness risk is generally overestimated. I said that this particular post overestimates that risk relative to other considerations, which are given little attention. I don’t think it’s right to suggest a long list of changes based on one consideration alone, while mostly neglecting other considerations. That is especially so since the cult notion is anyway kind of vague.
Do you think it would be better to not suggest any action, or to filter these suggestions without any input from other people? To me it reads like “here are some ideas for prevention” rather than “we must do all of these immediately”. Though at least some of them look obviously true, like encouraging having non-EA friendships and discouraging intimate relationships between senior and junior employees of EA orgs.
I’m not sure what you mean. I’m saying the post should have been more carefully argued.
I assume you hereby mean the same org (I think that’s the natural reading). But the post rather says:
That’s a very different suggestion.