My comment here was about Geoffrey Miller’s comment, rather than your original post as a whole (albeit I separately took issue with your use of “relatively petty...”), so I’m not sure I follow where you’re going here.
FWIW, if you’re referring to recently-come-to-light examples of sexual harassment and racism when you say “it’s more a lack of competence...”, then I would disagree with your characterisation. I think by saying that the likes of Owen Cotton-Barratt and Nick Bostrom aren’t “malicious sociopaths”, and that they didn’t do it ‘intentionally’ you fail to acknowledge the harm they’ve done. It’s a similar line of argument to your original post when you compare the harm done with “the survival of the human race”. I think it’s missing the point, it’s insensitive, and implies that they’re not soooo bad.
I also worry when the initial reaction to someone’s misdeeds is “let’s make sure we don’t punish them too harshly, or we’ll alienate them”, rather than “this is really wrong, and our first priority should be to make sure it doesn’t happen again”. My initial response isn’t to shed a tear for the damage to the career of the person who did the wrong thing.
I disagree with your framing this as “attacking” the people that have done wrong. If anything, it’s the people on the end of the sexual harassment that have been attacked.
I find it distasteful when people point to things like “EA has done a lot of good” or “EA has saved a lot of lives” in the context of revelations of sexual harassment etc. While it might be factually correct, I think it gives the sense that people think it’s OK to do horrible personal things as long as you donate enough to Givewell (I very much disagree).
And one final point: I don’t think “the old guard of EA” is the right frame (although I’m somewhat biased as I was involved in EA in 2011-12). I don’t believe the majority of wrongdoers are from this group, nor do I believe the majority of this group are wrongdoers.
Thanks for responding. For what it’s worth I personally think OCB should be permanently resigned from a powerful position in EA, and possibly socially distanced. Strong incentives against that type of behavior, especially right now, are extremely important. I’m disappointed with the response from EVF and think it should be far harsher.
The distinction I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t assume all powerful people in EA are bad apples as a result of this scandal breaking.
Hi Wil,
My comment here was about Geoffrey Miller’s comment, rather than your original post as a whole (albeit I separately took issue with your use of “relatively petty...”), so I’m not sure I follow where you’re going here.
FWIW, if you’re referring to recently-come-to-light examples of sexual harassment and racism when you say “it’s more a lack of competence...”, then I would disagree with your characterisation. I think by saying that the likes of Owen Cotton-Barratt and Nick Bostrom aren’t “malicious sociopaths”, and that they didn’t do it ‘intentionally’ you fail to acknowledge the harm they’ve done. It’s a similar line of argument to your original post when you compare the harm done with “the survival of the human race”. I think it’s missing the point, it’s insensitive, and implies that they’re not soooo bad.
I also worry when the initial reaction to someone’s misdeeds is “let’s make sure we don’t punish them too harshly, or we’ll alienate them”, rather than “this is really wrong, and our first priority should be to make sure it doesn’t happen again”. My initial response isn’t to shed a tear for the damage to the career of the person who did the wrong thing.
I disagree with your framing this as “attacking” the people that have done wrong. If anything, it’s the people on the end of the sexual harassment that have been attacked.
I find it distasteful when people point to things like “EA has done a lot of good” or “EA has saved a lot of lives” in the context of revelations of sexual harassment etc. While it might be factually correct, I think it gives the sense that people think it’s OK to do horrible personal things as long as you donate enough to Givewell (I very much disagree).
And one final point: I don’t think “the old guard of EA” is the right frame (although I’m somewhat biased as I was involved in EA in 2011-12). I don’t believe the majority of wrongdoers are from this group, nor do I believe the majority of this group are wrongdoers.
So no, that framing does not make sense to me.
Thanks for responding. For what it’s worth I personally think OCB should be permanently resigned from a powerful position in EA, and possibly socially distanced. Strong incentives against that type of behavior, especially right now, are extremely important. I’m disappointed with the response from EVF and think it should be far harsher.
The distinction I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t assume all powerful people in EA are bad apples as a result of this scandal breaking.
Thanks Wil. I can agree with that.