Hey Geoffrey, thanks for pointing this out. I agree it seems like you immediately got downvoted hard—I’ve strong agreed to try and correct that a bit.
I broadly agree with you on this, and I’m glad we’re having this conversation. However I think framing it this way is problematic and leads to tribalism. The way I see it the ‘woke takeover’ is really just movements growing up and learning to regulate some of their sharper edges in exchange for more social acceptance and political power.
Different movements do better or worse—New Atheism is an example that was ruined by this modulation. I’m optimistic that EA can learn to become more welcoming and palatable to normal folks on the left and right, while keeping the old guard, if we play our cards right.
The largest divide seems to be the older folks who prize unconventional dating and social norms like polyamory, radical honesty, etc, versus a lot of the more “normal” folks that may be turned off by that sort of thing. For instance leading a local group in Raleigh NC, we have a large number of people that have relatively standard intuitions about sex and relationships.
My biggest goal is learning how to increase their involvement and engagement in EA without turning them off—something we’ve already dealt with a bit from SBF.
Building that middle ground framework will be tough, do you have any ideas here as to where we can start?
The way I see it the ‘woke takeover’ is really just movements growing up and learning to regulate some of their sharper edges in exchange for more social acceptance and political power.
I don’t agree with this part of the comment, but am aware that you may not have the particular context that may be informing Geoffrey’s view (I say may because I don’t want to claim to speak for Geoffrey).
These two podcasts, one by Ezra Klein with Michelle Goldberg and one by the NY Times, point to the impact of what is roughly referred to in these podcasts as “identity politics” or “purity politics” (which other people may refer to as “woke politics”). The impact, according to those interviewed, on these movements and nonprofits, has been to significantly diminish their impact on the outside world.
I also think that it would be naïve to claim that these movements were “growing up” considering how long feminism and the civil rights movement have been around. The views expressed in these podcasts also strongly disagree with your claim that they are gaining more political power.
I think these experiences, from those within nonprofits and movements on the left no less, lend support to what Geoffrey is arguing. Especially considering that the EA movement is ultimately about having the most (positive) impact on the outside world.
“ The way I see it the ‘woke takeover’ is really just movements growing up and learning to regulate some of their sharper edges in exchange for more social acceptance and political power.”
I think there is some truth in movements often “growing up” over time and I agree that in some circumstances people can confuse this with “woke takeover”, but I think it’s important to have a notion of some takeover/entryism as well.
In terms of the difference: to what extent did people in the movement naturally change their views vs. to what extent was it compelled?
I suppose protest can have its place in fixing a system, but at a certain hard-to-identify point, it essentially becomes blackmail.
Hey Geoffrey, thanks for pointing this out. I agree it seems like you immediately got downvoted hard—I’ve strong agreed to try and correct that a bit.
I broadly agree with you on this, and I’m glad we’re having this conversation. However I think framing it this way is problematic and leads to tribalism. The way I see it the ‘woke takeover’ is really just movements growing up and learning to regulate some of their sharper edges in exchange for more social acceptance and political power.
Different movements do better or worse—New Atheism is an example that was ruined by this modulation. I’m optimistic that EA can learn to become more welcoming and palatable to normal folks on the left and right, while keeping the old guard, if we play our cards right.
The largest divide seems to be the older folks who prize unconventional dating and social norms like polyamory, radical honesty, etc, versus a lot of the more “normal” folks that may be turned off by that sort of thing. For instance leading a local group in Raleigh NC, we have a large number of people that have relatively standard intuitions about sex and relationships.
My biggest goal is learning how to increase their involvement and engagement in EA without turning them off—something we’ve already dealt with a bit from SBF.
Building that middle ground framework will be tough, do you have any ideas here as to where we can start?
I don’t agree with this part of the comment, but am aware that you may not have the particular context that may be informing Geoffrey’s view (I say may because I don’t want to claim to speak for Geoffrey).
These two podcasts, one by Ezra Klein with Michelle Goldberg and one by the NY Times, point to the impact of what is roughly referred to in these podcasts as “identity politics” or “purity politics” (which other people may refer to as “woke politics”). The impact, according to those interviewed, on these movements and nonprofits, has been to significantly diminish their impact on the outside world.
I also think that it would be naïve to claim that these movements were “growing up” considering how long feminism and the civil rights movement have been around. The views expressed in these podcasts also strongly disagree with your claim that they are gaining more political power.
I think these experiences, from those within nonprofits and movements on the left no less, lend support to what Geoffrey is arguing. Especially considering that the EA movement is ultimately about having the most (positive) impact on the outside world.
“ The way I see it the ‘woke takeover’ is really just movements growing up and learning to regulate some of their sharper edges in exchange for more social acceptance and political power.”
I think there is some truth in movements often “growing up” over time and I agree that in some circumstances people can confuse this with “woke takeover”, but I think it’s important to have a notion of some takeover/entryism as well.
In terms of the difference: to what extent did people in the movement naturally change their views vs. to what extent was it compelled?
I suppose protest can have its place in fixing a system, but at a certain hard-to-identify point, it essentially becomes blackmail.
Wil—thanks for the constructive reply. That’s all reasonable. I’ve got to teach soon, but will try to respond properly later.