I think voluntary abortion reduction is just one of many ways to increase the amount of near-term future people. The post’s “In Our Personal Lives” section includes the suggestions you gave and more, which I agree are arguably more effective than voluntary abortion reduction in accomplishing that goal. I also agree with you that reducing x-risk is (probably) much more important than directly increasing the amount of near-term future people, and I think far more EA resources should be devoted to the former than the latter.
So why did I care enough about voluntary abortion reduction to write this post?
I do believe that adding one future person is close to as good as saving a life, so it still seems to me that when measured against other concerns which occupy the minds of the general public, voluntary abortion reduction is very important indeed, especially given abortion’s staggering scale.
I think bringing up ideas which provoke conversations and challenge preconceptions within the community is good for its own sake.
This concern is more debatable, but I’m personally deeply receptive to the idea that our values should cause us to make mini-interventions in our personal lives. Being a vegan is a drop in the bucket of animal suffering, but making a real change in a personal life in response to my moral principles is very important to me. With apologies to those who disagree, I think about voluntarily choosing to not have abortions in the exact same way.
Being a vegan is a drop in the bucket of animal suffering, but making a real change in a personal life in response to my moral principles is very important to me. With apologies to those who disagree, I think about voluntarily choosing to not have abortions in the exact same way.
Changing our personal lives in response to a view that it’s very good for more people to exist (and with approximate indifference between ending the lives of fetuses and something that prevents those lives from ever starting) doesn’t seem like it primarily would give avoiding abortion (typically using birth control, non-impregnatable sex, or abstinence) to avoiding starting pregnancies). Instead, it would primarily push towards having kids earlier in life and having a large number of them, no?
I think maybe a goal of maximizing how many kids you have is doing all the work here? Almost all of the cases I can think of where someone who is trying to have as many kids as possible would have an abortion if not for a no-voluntary-abortion goal (risk to life of mother, accidental pregnancy early enough in life that it would limit ability to have more other kids later, prenatal test shows serious issues, etc) are cases where I think your reasoning above would lead to having the abortion and then going on to have more other kids.
You’re making the understandable assumption given your family’s history in EA that I too am a saint, and that does run into the conclusion you gave. Most likely, I’ll marry someone who’d also like to have many children, and we’ll have as many children as we agree to. However, if there’s a happy accident, I’d prefer to keep that happy accident. If there were a happy accident who for whatever reason we weren’t able to support, we should give up for adoption rather than abort.
I don’t think we actually disagree :)
I think voluntary abortion reduction is just one of many ways to increase the amount of near-term future people. The post’s “In Our Personal Lives” section includes the suggestions you gave and more, which I agree are arguably more effective than voluntary abortion reduction in accomplishing that goal. I also agree with you that reducing x-risk is (probably) much more important than directly increasing the amount of near-term future people, and I think far more EA resources should be devoted to the former than the latter.
So why did I care enough about voluntary abortion reduction to write this post?
I do believe that adding one future person is close to as good as saving a life, so it still seems to me that when measured against other concerns which occupy the minds of the general public, voluntary abortion reduction is very important indeed, especially given abortion’s staggering scale.
I think bringing up ideas which provoke conversations and challenge preconceptions within the community is good for its own sake.
This concern is more debatable, but I’m personally deeply receptive to the idea that our values should cause us to make mini-interventions in our personal lives. Being a vegan is a drop in the bucket of animal suffering, but making a real change in a personal life in response to my moral principles is very important to me. With apologies to those who disagree, I think about voluntarily choosing to not have abortions in the exact same way.
Changing our personal lives in response to a view that it’s very good for more people to exist (and with approximate indifference between ending the lives of fetuses and something that prevents those lives from ever starting) doesn’t seem like it primarily would give avoiding abortion (typically using birth control, non-impregnatable sex, or abstinence) to avoiding starting pregnancies). Instead, it would primarily push towards having kids earlier in life and having a large number of them, no?
I think it should push towards both of those values, and I plan on fulfilling both ;)
Thanks for clarifying!
I think maybe a goal of maximizing how many kids you have is doing all the work here? Almost all of the cases I can think of where someone who is trying to have as many kids as possible would have an abortion if not for a no-voluntary-abortion goal (risk to life of mother, accidental pregnancy early enough in life that it would limit ability to have more other kids later, prenatal test shows serious issues, etc) are cases where I think your reasoning above would lead to having the abortion and then going on to have more other kids.
You’re making the understandable assumption given your family’s history in EA that I too am a saint, and that does run into the conclusion you gave. Most likely, I’ll marry someone who’d also like to have many children, and we’ll have as many children as we agree to. However, if there’s a happy accident, I’d prefer to keep that happy accident. If there were a happy accident who for whatever reason we weren’t able to support, we should give up for adoption rather than abort.