That’s because acting indifferent to whether or not people who care about similar things as we do waste time figuring things out is cold
No, it’s not cold. It’s indifferent, and normal. No one in any social movement worries about wasting the time of people who come to learn about things. Churches don’t worry that they’re wasting people’s time when inviting them to come in for a sermon; they don’t advertise all the reasons that people don’t believe in God. Feminists don’t worry that they’re wasting people’s time by not advertising that they want white women to check their privilege before colored ones. BLM doesn’t worry that it’s wasting people’s time by not advertising that they don’t welcome people who are primarily concerned with combating black-on-black violence. And so on.
Learning what EA is about does not take a long time. This is not like asking people to read Marx or the LessWrong sequences. The books by Singer and MacAskill are very accessible and do not take long to read. If someone reads it and doesn’t like it, so what? They heard a different perspective before going back to their ordinary life.
is cold in a way that disproportionately drives away certain types of skilled people who’d otherwise feel welcome in EA.
Who thinks “I’m an effective altruist and I feel unwelcome here in effective altruism because people who don’t agree with effective altruism aren’t properly shielded from our movement”? If you want to make people feel welcome then make it a movement that works for them. I fail to see how publicly broadcasting incompatibility with others does any good.
Sure, it’s nice to have a clearly defined outgroup that you can contrast yourselves with, to promote solidarity. Is that what you mean? But there are much easier and safer punching bags to be used for this purpose, like selfish capitalists or snobby Marxist intellectuals.
Intersectionality comes into the picture when, due to their experiences, people from certain backgrounds are much, much likelier to be able to easily grasp how these underlying factors impact the way in which not all movement growth is equal.
Intersectionality does not mean simply looking at people’s experiences from different backgrounds. It means critiquing and moving past sweeping modernist narratives of the experiences of large groups by investigating the unique ways in which orthogonal identity categories interact. I don’t see why it’s helpful, given that identity hasn’t previously entered the picture at all in this conversation, and that there don’t seem to be any problematic sweeping identity narratives floating around.
The obvious-to-me way in which this could be true is if traditionally privileged people (especially first-worlders with testosterone-dominated bodies) either don’t understand or don’t appreciate that unhealthy conversation norms subtly but surely drive away valuable people.
I am a little bit confused here. You are the one saying that we should make outward facing statements telling people that EA isn’t suited for them. How is that not going to drive away valuable people, in particular the ones who have diverse perspectives?
And in what way is failing to make such statements an unhealthy conversational norm? I have never seen any social movement perform this sort of behavior. If doing so is a conversational norm then it’s not one which people have grown accustomed to expect.
Moreover, the street goes two ways. Here’s a different perspective which you may have overlooked due to your background: some people want to be in a movement that’s solid and self-assured. Creating an environment where language is constantly being policed for extreme niceness can lead some people to feel uninterested in engaging in honest dialogue.
If you’re the sort of person who doesn’t use particularly friendly conversation norms in the first place, you’re likely to underestimate how important friendly conversation norms are to the well-being of others, and overestimate the willingness of others to consider themselves a part of a movement with poor conversation norms.
You can reject quantitative metrics, and you can also give some credence to allegations of bias. But you can’t rely on this sort of thing to form a narrative. You have to find some kind of evidence.
When people speak as if dishonesty is permissible, as if kindness is optional, or as if dominating others is ok, this makes EA’s conversation norms worse.
This is a strawman of my statements, which I have no interest in validating through response.
No, it’s not cold. It’s indifferent, and normal. No one in any social movement worries about wasting the time of people who come to learn about things. Churches don’t worry that they’re wasting people’s time when inviting them to come in for a sermon; they don’t advertise all the reasons that people don’t believe in God. Feminists don’t worry that they’re wasting people’s time by not advertising that they want white women to check their privilege before colored ones. BLM doesn’t worry that it’s wasting people’s time by not advertising that they don’t welcome people who are primarily concerned with combating black-on-black violence. And so on.
Learning what EA is about does not take a long time. This is not like asking people to read Marx or the LessWrong sequences. The books by Singer and MacAskill are very accessible and do not take long to read. If someone reads it and doesn’t like it, so what? They heard a different perspective before going back to their ordinary life.
Who thinks “I’m an effective altruist and I feel unwelcome here in effective altruism because people who don’t agree with effective altruism aren’t properly shielded from our movement”? If you want to make people feel welcome then make it a movement that works for them. I fail to see how publicly broadcasting incompatibility with others does any good.
Sure, it’s nice to have a clearly defined outgroup that you can contrast yourselves with, to promote solidarity. Is that what you mean? But there are much easier and safer punching bags to be used for this purpose, like selfish capitalists or snobby Marxist intellectuals.
Intersectionality does not mean simply looking at people’s experiences from different backgrounds. It means critiquing and moving past sweeping modernist narratives of the experiences of large groups by investigating the unique ways in which orthogonal identity categories interact. I don’t see why it’s helpful, given that identity hasn’t previously entered the picture at all in this conversation, and that there don’t seem to be any problematic sweeping identity narratives floating around.
I am a little bit confused here. You are the one saying that we should make outward facing statements telling people that EA isn’t suited for them. How is that not going to drive away valuable people, in particular the ones who have diverse perspectives?
And in what way is failing to make such statements an unhealthy conversational norm? I have never seen any social movement perform this sort of behavior. If doing so is a conversational norm then it’s not one which people have grown accustomed to expect.
Moreover, the street goes two ways. Here’s a different perspective which you may have overlooked due to your background: some people want to be in a movement that’s solid and self-assured. Creating an environment where language is constantly being policed for extreme niceness can lead some people to feel uninterested in engaging in honest dialogue.
You can reject quantitative metrics, and you can also give some credence to allegations of bias. But you can’t rely on this sort of thing to form a narrative. You have to find some kind of evidence.
This is a strawman of my statements, which I have no interest in validating through response.