Disagreevotes don’t signal that you broke a discussion norm, just that people disagree. I am one of them, because
The analogy to operating costs is flawed; an organization cannot operate without paying people and wants to attract talented people. It’s unlikely that Wytham Abbey is in the same “existential need” category. Even supporters of the purchase don’t claim that.
Why is it ridiculous to consider Open Phil an EA organization?
Disagreevotes don’t signal that you broke a discussion norm, just that people disagree.
I see the appeal for the separate voting values, but I haven’t noticed a situation where a comment ends up with “this is a quality comment but I disagree,” which is what I would think as the valuable quadrant of having the separate scores. While it does take more time I appreciate having elaboration for the disagreement. So, thank you for replying!
Operating costs is flawed, yes, but not entirely inaccurate. Wytham isn’t an existential need, but it is intended to attract and (temporarily) house talented people, and part of the justification was long-term savings compared to short-term venue rentals. Defenders in the original posts suggested it would assist in attracting better talent and generate better ideas/discussion/etc. Much discussion has been made over the years on the tradeoffs regarding CEO pay to attract talent versus funding going to the causes instead. It’s not existential operating costs, but it’s … optional? Fringe? Preferred? operating costs.
I likely could have phrased it more clearly; after further reflection, the question I should’ve asked may have been better put as “Considering these grounds for disagreement with the purchase, would that also suggest that organized EA should also reduce emphasis on conferences more generally?”
Ridiculous is likely a bit strong, and rooted in my old-school considerations of “effective,” but it was the criminal justice reform and subsequent spinoff that convinced me that OpenPhil is not an EA organization even though it often funds EA. I agree criminal justice reform is a good cause, a—ha—just cause, but I can’t imagine anyone honestly thinking it would be within two or three orders of magnitude of a cost-effective cause. As the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and keeping them under the “EA umbrella,” can make it seem like everything they do is “effective altruism.”
That’s not to say that OpenPhil shouldn’t fund that kind of thing; it’s not my money and they can fund what they want. But many of the same people running OpenPhil run the organizations telling EAs which organizations are “most effective,” and some of these decisions call into question those other recommendations. How much trust gets spent each time one of these decisions is made, and how long can they coast on reserves before the community gets too skeptical? I imagine it’s been discussed here before, but I just recently came upon this essay by Benjamin Ross Hoffman raising similar concerns years ago.
Edit: Laziness is not a virtue; I checked, and yes, that essay was cross-posted here around the time it was published.
Disagreevotes don’t signal that you broke a discussion norm, just that people disagree. I am one of them, because
The analogy to operating costs is flawed; an organization cannot operate without paying people and wants to attract talented people. It’s unlikely that Wytham Abbey is in the same “existential need” category. Even supporters of the purchase don’t claim that.
Why is it ridiculous to consider Open Phil an EA organization?
I see the appeal for the separate voting values, but I haven’t noticed a situation where a comment ends up with “this is a quality comment but I disagree,” which is what I would think as the valuable quadrant of having the separate scores. While it does take more time I appreciate having elaboration for the disagreement. So, thank you for replying!
Operating costs is flawed, yes, but not entirely inaccurate. Wytham isn’t an existential need, but it is intended to attract and (temporarily) house talented people, and part of the justification was long-term savings compared to short-term venue rentals. Defenders in the original posts suggested it would assist in attracting better talent and generate better ideas/discussion/etc. Much discussion has been made over the years on the tradeoffs regarding CEO pay to attract talent versus funding going to the causes instead. It’s not existential operating costs, but it’s … optional? Fringe? Preferred? operating costs.
I likely could have phrased it more clearly; after further reflection, the question I should’ve asked may have been better put as “Considering these grounds for disagreement with the purchase, would that also suggest that organized EA should also reduce emphasis on conferences more generally?”
Ridiculous is likely a bit strong, and rooted in my old-school considerations of “effective,” but it was the criminal justice reform and subsequent spinoff that convinced me that OpenPhil is not an EA organization even though it often funds EA. I agree criminal justice reform is a good cause, a—ha—just cause, but I can’t imagine anyone honestly thinking it would be within two or three orders of magnitude of a cost-effective cause. As the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and keeping them under the “EA umbrella,” can make it seem like everything they do is “effective altruism.”
That’s not to say that OpenPhil shouldn’t fund that kind of thing; it’s not my money and they can fund what they want. But many of the same people running OpenPhil run the organizations telling EAs which organizations are “most effective,” and some of these decisions call into question those other recommendations. How much trust gets spent each time one of these decisions is made, and how long can they coast on reserves before the community gets too skeptical? I imagine it’s been discussed here before, but I just recently came upon this essay by Benjamin Ross Hoffman raising similar concerns years ago.
Edit: Laziness is not a virtue; I checked, and yes, that essay was cross-posted here around the time it was published.