Hi, it’s bad to hear that you feel this way, and I can understand why you have this sort of sentiment. A lot of emotions are running high right now.
But what I have not seen mention of here: I have not had funding effected by this (apart from reducing future potential funding sources), so I am saying this as someone far less effected than most. But a lot of people had their funding sources part or all from FTX, whose funding is now uncertain. There has been no guarantee that all promised grants will be fulfilled as far as I am aware, even through another funding source like Open Phil as they mentioned raising their criteria. There will be people, as a direct result of this, who do not know whether their work can continue or if they lose their job/business/other project, or whether past money that they spent, having received in good faith while trying to have the highest positive impact they could, may even be clawed back. Some of these people will be students, or people early in their careers, who are less likely to have savings to fall back on, or in the event of a clawback may have their savings wiped out (I have no idea of the actual likelihood of this, but I have seen this discussed on the forum). Who perhaps have not been given a clear answer, by other people in the movement who they may have been expecting an answer from but who are instead remaining silent (although there might have been private communication that I am unaware of). My sympathy lies with them the most, and I do not blame them (or others) for potentially questioning people who perhaps could have known more (not saying anyone did or didn’t, I wouldn’t know beyond what is in the media).
And that’s of course just the people affected within the EA community. That’s not mentioning the hundreds of thousands or millions of customers who were directly stolen from, many of whom lost significant amounts of money or even their life savings. That’s not mentioning people who will be effected in future fallout.
“This has included Will MacAskill and other thought leaders for the grave sin of not magically predicting that someone whose every external action suggested that he wanted to work with us to make the world a better place, would YOLO it and go Bernie Madoff. The hunt has included members of Sam’s family for the grave sin of being related to him.” I think it is fairly natural to question if certain people knew more than most, when it externally seems like Will MacAskill may have been some form of mentor to SBF for nearly a decade (I know nothing here, just going by the media for this one, and it seems likely that this may have been overstated in media as it makes a good story). Family members can plausibly know better than that, and of course nobody should be threatened, but luckily I have not really seen this within the EA community.
“It has included attributing the cause of Sam’s actions to everything from issues with diversity and inclusivity, lack of transparency in EAG admissions, the pitfalls of caring if we all get eviscerated by a nuke or rogue AI, and, of course, our office spaces and dating habits.” Dating habits can very much be a conflict of interest (Google it), particularly if it is likely to influence something like the willingness to provide *multi-billion dollar fraudulent loans* due to this person being someone you are (allegedly) dating..
“But why exactly should I help those in the community who believe that the moral thing to do when someone is on their knees is to curb stomp them while yelling “I should have been admitted to EAG 2016!”?” Who’s actually done this? Source? And the main ‘curb-stomped’ people, if you can call it that, are literally 1) someone who has committed multi-billion dollar fraud more likely than not it seems (and some of his inner circle) and 2) someone who at this point is likely the main public face of the movement who said fraud claimed (in many past interviews) motivated him (and public figures should not be above question). Innocent until proven guilty of course, but even if the odd person takes things too far, that is not indicative of a movement wide ‘witch hunt’.
A lot of people’s emotions are high right now, and remember that when reading other people’s comments, the same way they should remember when reading what you write including this post.
(And in fairness to Twitter, it has been more balanced than I was expecting (considering my base rate for expected Twitter discourse is basically people screaming/a witch hunt, you don’t go to Twitter for reasoned debate). People appear to be defending EA, and that includes people from the public.)
Reposting my penultimate paragraph as it is important and in case people don’t otherwise read that far:
A lot of people’s emotions are high right now, and remember that when reading other people’s comments, the same way they should remember when reading what you write including this post.
Hi, it’s bad to hear that you feel this way, and I can understand why you have this sort of sentiment. A lot of emotions are running high right now.
But what I have not seen mention of here:
I have not had funding effected by this (apart from reducing future potential funding sources), so I am saying this as someone far less effected than most. But a lot of people had their funding sources part or all from FTX, whose funding is now uncertain. There has been no guarantee that all promised grants will be fulfilled as far as I am aware, even through another funding source like Open Phil as they mentioned raising their criteria. There will be people, as a direct result of this, who do not know whether their work can continue or if they lose their job/business/other project, or whether past money that they spent, having received in good faith while trying to have the highest positive impact they could, may even be clawed back. Some of these people will be students, or people early in their careers, who are less likely to have savings to fall back on, or in the event of a clawback may have their savings wiped out (I have no idea of the actual likelihood of this, but I have seen this discussed on the forum). Who perhaps have not been given a clear answer, by other people in the movement who they may have been expecting an answer from but who are instead remaining silent (although there might have been private communication that I am unaware of). My sympathy lies with them the most, and I do not blame them (or others) for potentially questioning people who perhaps could have known more (not saying anyone did or didn’t, I wouldn’t know beyond what is in the media).
And that’s of course just the people affected within the EA community. That’s not mentioning the hundreds of thousands or millions of customers who were directly stolen from, many of whom lost significant amounts of money or even their life savings. That’s not mentioning people who will be effected in future fallout.
“This has included Will MacAskill and other thought leaders for the grave sin of not magically predicting that someone whose every external action suggested that he wanted to work with us to make the world a better place, would YOLO it and go Bernie Madoff. The hunt has included members of Sam’s family for the grave sin of being related to him.”
I think it is fairly natural to question if certain people knew more than most, when it externally seems like Will MacAskill may have been some form of mentor to SBF for nearly a decade (I know nothing here, just going by the media for this one, and it seems likely that this may have been overstated in media as it makes a good story). Family members can plausibly know better than that, and of course nobody should be threatened, but luckily I have not really seen this within the EA community.
“It has included attributing the cause of Sam’s actions to everything from issues with diversity and inclusivity, lack of transparency in EAG admissions, the pitfalls of caring if we all get eviscerated by a nuke or rogue AI, and, of course, our office spaces and dating habits.”
Dating habits can very much be a conflict of interest (Google it), particularly if it is likely to influence something like the willingness to provide *multi-billion dollar fraudulent loans* due to this person being someone you are (allegedly) dating..
“But why exactly should I help those in the community who believe that the moral thing to do when someone is on their knees is to curb stomp them while yelling “I should have been admitted to EAG 2016!”?”
Who’s actually done this? Source? And the main ‘curb-stomped’ people, if you can call it that, are literally 1) someone who has committed multi-billion dollar fraud more likely than not it seems (and some of his inner circle) and 2) someone who at this point is likely the main public face of the movement who said fraud claimed (in many past interviews) motivated him (and public figures should not be above question). Innocent until proven guilty of course, but even if the odd person takes things too far, that is not indicative of a movement wide ‘witch hunt’.
A lot of people’s emotions are high right now, and remember that when reading other people’s comments, the same way they should remember when reading what you write including this post.
(And in fairness to Twitter, it has been more balanced than I was expecting (considering my base rate for expected Twitter discourse is basically people screaming/a witch hunt, you don’t go to Twitter for reasoned debate). People appear to be defending EA, and that includes people from the public.)
Reposting my penultimate paragraph as it is important and in case people don’t otherwise read that far:
A lot of people’s emotions are high right now, and remember that when reading other people’s comments, the same way they should remember when reading what you write including this post.