was told by a friend that Michael Vassar is barred from Slate Star Codex meetups.
He was banned, but still managed to slip through the cracks enough to be invited to an SSC online meetup in 2020. (To be very clear, this was not organised or endorsed by Scott alexander, who did ban Vasser from his events).
You can read the mea culpa from the organiser here. It really looks to me like Vasser has been treated with a missing stair approach until very recently, where those in the know quietly disinvite him to things but others, even within the community, are unaware. Even in the comments here where some very harsh allegations are made against him, people are still being urged not to “ostracise” him, which to me seems like an entirely appropriate action.
Neither Scotts banning of Vassar nor the REACH banning was quiet. It’s just that there’s no process by which those people who organize Slate Star Codex meetups are made aware.
It turns out that plenty of people who organize Slate Star Codex meetups are not in touch with Bay Area community drama. The person who organized that SSC online meetup was from Israel.
Even in the comments here where some very harsh allegations are made against him
That’s because some of the harsh allegations don’t seem to hold up. Scott Alexander spent a significant amount of time investigating and came up with:
While I disagree with Jessica’s interpretations of a lot of things, I generally agree with her facts (about the Vassar stuff which I have been researching; I know nothing about the climate at MIRI). I think this post gives most of the relevant information mine would give. I agree with (my model of) Jessica that proximity to Michael’s ideas (and psychedelics) was not the single unique cause of her problems but may have contributed.
It’s just that there’s no process by which those people who organize Slate Star Codex meetups are made aware.
This definitely indicates a mishandling of the situation, that leaves room for improvement. In a better world, somebody would have spotted the talk before it went ahead. As it is now, it made it (falsely) look like he was endorsed by SSC, which I hope we can agree is not something we want. We already know he’s been using his connection with Yud (via HPMOR) to try and seduce people.
With regards to the latter, if someone was triggering psychotic breaks in my community, I would feel no shame in kicking them out, even if it was unintentional. There is no democratic right to participate in one particular subculture. Ostracism is an appropriate response for far less than this.
I’m particularly concerned with the Anna Salamon statement that sapphire posted above, where she apologises to him for the ostracisation, and says she recommends inviting him to future SSC meetups. This is going in the exact wrong direction, and seems like an indicator that the rationalists are poorly handling abuse.
This definitely indicates a mishandling of the situation, that leaves room for improvement.
I agree with that and do think that having a better system to share information would be good.
With regards to the latter, if someone was triggering psychotic breaks in my community, I would feel no shame in kicking them out, even if it was unintentional.
If Vassar tells someone about how the organization for which they are working is corrupt and the person Vassar is talking with considers his arguments persuasive, that’s going to be bad for their mental health.
Anna Salamon wrote that post because she believes that some arguments made about how CFAR was corrupt were reasonable arguments.
To the extent that the rationalist ideal makes sense, it includes not ostracising people for speaking out uncomfortable truths even if those uncomfortable truths are bad for the mental health of some people.
We already know he’s been using his connection with Yud (via HPMOR) to try and seduce people.
The seduction here is “Look, I’m bad in a way that I served as a template for the evil villain”.
While “X is a bad boy” can be attractive to some women, it should be a very clear sign that he’s poor relationship material. It also shouldn’t be surprising for anyone when he’s actually a bad boy in that relationship.
A woman who wants a relationship with a bad boy can find that and it feels a bit paternalistic to say that a woman who wants that shouldn’t get any opportunity to get that.
I do think there are good reasons not to have him at meetups but it’s a complex decision.
He was banned, but still managed to slip through the cracks enough to be invited to an SSC online meetup in 2020. (To be very clear, this was not organised or endorsed by Scott alexander, who did ban Vasser from his events).
You can read the mea culpa from the organiser here. It really looks to me like Vasser has been treated with a missing stair approach until very recently, where those in the know quietly disinvite him to things but others, even within the community, are unaware. Even in the comments here where some very harsh allegations are made against him, people are still being urged not to “ostracise” him, which to me seems like an entirely appropriate action.
Neither Scotts banning of Vassar nor the REACH banning was quiet. It’s just that there’s no process by which those people who organize Slate Star Codex meetups are made aware.
It turns out that plenty of people who organize Slate Star Codex meetups are not in touch with Bay Area community drama. The person who organized that SSC online meetup was from Israel.
That’s because some of the harsh allegations don’t seem to hold up. Scott Alexander spent a significant amount of time investigating and came up with:
This definitely indicates a mishandling of the situation, that leaves room for improvement. In a better world, somebody would have spotted the talk before it went ahead. As it is now, it made it (falsely) look like he was endorsed by SSC, which I hope we can agree is not something we want. We already know he’s been using his connection with Yud (via HPMOR) to try and seduce people.
With regards to the latter, if someone was triggering psychotic breaks in my community, I would feel no shame in kicking them out, even if it was unintentional. There is no democratic right to participate in one particular subculture. Ostracism is an appropriate response for far less than this.
I’m particularly concerned with the Anna Salamon statement that sapphire posted above, where she apologises to him for the ostracisation, and says she recommends inviting him to future SSC meetups. This is going in the exact wrong direction, and seems like an indicator that the rationalists are poorly handling abuse.
I agree with that and do think that having a better system to share information would be good.
If Vassar tells someone about how the organization for which they are working is corrupt and the person Vassar is talking with considers his arguments persuasive, that’s going to be bad for their mental health.
Anna Salamon wrote that post because she believes that some arguments made about how CFAR was corrupt were reasonable arguments.
To the extent that the rationalist ideal makes sense, it includes not ostracising people for speaking out uncomfortable truths even if those uncomfortable truths are bad for the mental health of some people.
The seduction here is “Look, I’m bad in a way that I served as a template for the evil villain”.
While “X is a bad boy” can be attractive to some women, it should be a very clear sign that he’s poor relationship material. It also shouldn’t be surprising for anyone when he’s actually a bad boy in that relationship.
A woman who wants a relationship with a bad boy can find that and it feels a bit paternalistic to say that a woman who wants that shouldn’t get any opportunity to get that.
I do think there are good reasons not to have him at meetups but it’s a complex decision.
I think these were relatively quiet. The only public thing I can find about REACH is this post where Ben objects to it, and Scott’s listing was just as “Michael A” and then later “Michael V”.