This is a suggestion I found interesting and exciting. However, perhaps its implementation might beā¦ too early? As you mentioned, there are few in-person orgs, and they donāt seem to be constrained by the amount of motivated individuals (though I might be wrong there, esp if people at the AASF were interested).
I was a bit surprised by the āsteep dropoff after graduationā claim. I think this is very likely to be true, but this could give theāvery falseāimpression that there are many motivated students in the movement, which is not what Iāve observed. At most animal advocacy protests Iāve attended (or other non-EA pro-animal in-person event), itās very hard to find people under 25.
Iām actually the president of an animal ethics student org, which is part of a network that was created with the idea of filling that gap. Itās less ambitious for sure (and way less costly), but it has the perk of trying to motivate students to take more basic steps to join the movement or build a pro-animal identity, because in my understanding, people who would currently feel motivated to do such a fellowship after graduating are probably rare.
Tentative feedback: you cite other bottlenecks in animal advocacy, and I feel like they are likely to affect the impact of such a program were it too exist (too little funding, too few orgs). Iād also suggest that the āin-personā criteria is demanding and might be counter-productive (though I understand why you find it critical). If so much animal advocacy work is currently remote, it might be better to own up to it and see if there are some motivated individuals who can still give their all in remote jobs (hopefully with strong connections in other ways, such as having opportunities to attend conferences and retreats, go to sanctuaries, etc).
Though if the āin-personā part is crucial, it might be better, on the margin, to work on ways to strengthen the in-person aspects of animal advocacy (though Iām not sure of robust ways to do that, and I assume it could be very costly).
Overall, I think this post is particularly valuable for highlighting the sort of things the movement should be aiming for: Iād also be very interested in more data on how many individuals are currently involved in animal advocacy in any way, shape, or form.
Fair thoughts, thanks for the input! A few responses here:
>>I was a bit surprised by the āsteep dropoff after graduationā claim. I think this is very likely to be true, but this could give theāvery falseāimpression that there are many motivated students in the movement, which is not what Iāve observed.
I do think there are a lot of motivated students in the movement though, particularly in the US and UK (Iām less sure about other countries). Though perhaps to your point, even in these countries I think these students tend not to actually be getting out there that much, e.g. probably not attending protests, and are probably instead doing more insular activities on their campuses like discussion groups and vegan cooking. This was the case at least for my own student group.
Definitely would be helpful to have more data here! Iām just speaking off of impressions right now.
>>However, perhaps its implementation might beā¦ too early?
Possibly. To push back on this though, I do think that sometimes a given campaign will always just seem too difficult/ātoo early until it is done, and that we might as well just start working on it now.
Thanks for your organizing work! The network you describe sounds cool and I hope itās going really well. I think you should consider writing more about it in an EA Forum post or something (or please link me to one if youāve already done this!). I hadnāt heard of it before, and I think itād be helpful for more people to be thinking about this sort of thing.
(A bit disjointed)
This is a suggestion I found interesting and exciting. However, perhaps its implementation might beā¦ too early? As you mentioned, there are few in-person orgs, and they donāt seem to be constrained by the amount of motivated individuals (though I might be wrong there, esp if people at the AASF were interested).
I was a bit surprised by the āsteep dropoff after graduationā claim. I think this is very likely to be true, but this could give theāvery falseāimpression that there are many motivated students in the movement, which is not what Iāve observed. At most animal advocacy protests Iāve attended (or other non-EA pro-animal in-person event), itās very hard to find people under 25.
Iām actually the president of an animal ethics student org, which is part of a network that was created with the idea of filling that gap. Itās less ambitious for sure (and way less costly), but it has the perk of trying to motivate students to take more basic steps to join the movement or build a pro-animal identity, because in my understanding, people who would currently feel motivated to do such a fellowship after graduating are probably rare.
Tentative feedback: you cite other bottlenecks in animal advocacy, and I feel like they are likely to affect the impact of such a program were it too exist (too little funding, too few orgs). Iād also suggest that the āin-personā criteria is demanding and might be counter-productive (though I understand why you find it critical). If so much animal advocacy work is currently remote, it might be better to own up to it and see if there are some motivated individuals who can still give their all in remote jobs (hopefully with strong connections in other ways, such as having opportunities to attend conferences and retreats, go to sanctuaries, etc).
Though if the āin-personā part is crucial, it might be better, on the margin, to work on ways to strengthen the in-person aspects of animal advocacy (though Iām not sure of robust ways to do that, and I assume it could be very costly).
Overall, I think this post is particularly valuable for highlighting the sort of things the movement should be aiming for: Iād also be very interested in more data on how many individuals are currently involved in animal advocacy in any way, shape, or form.
Fair thoughts, thanks for the input! A few responses here:
>>I was a bit surprised by the āsteep dropoff after graduationā claim. I think this is very likely to be true, but this could give theāvery falseāimpression that there are many motivated students in the movement, which is not what Iāve observed.
I do think there are a lot of motivated students in the movement though, particularly in the US and UK (Iām less sure about other countries). Though perhaps to your point, even in these countries I think these students tend not to actually be getting out there that much, e.g. probably not attending protests, and are probably instead doing more insular activities on their campuses like discussion groups and vegan cooking. This was the case at least for my own student group.
Definitely would be helpful to have more data here! Iām just speaking off of impressions right now.
>>However, perhaps its implementation might beā¦ too early?
Possibly. To push back on this though, I do think that sometimes a given campaign will always just seem too difficult/ātoo early until it is done, and that we might as well just start working on it now.
Thanks for your organizing work! The network you describe sounds cool and I hope itās going really well. I think you should consider writing more about it in an EA Forum post or something (or please link me to one if youāve already done this!). I hadnāt heard of it before, and I think itād be helpful for more people to be thinking about this sort of thing.