I don’t think it is true that the above statement is not evidence of guilt. Firstly, you say yourself that we should take Jacy at his word, and he explicitly apologises for mistakes in the above and admits wrongdoing. Secondly, clearly his statement and the wider evidence is evidence of guilt in the sense that it is an update (a very large one) in favour of the proposition (1) that he has committed wrongdoing. This is true even if you think, as many commenters here seem to, that there is some probability that: (2) this is a kangaroo court and this is a coerced confession; or (3) that he’s apologising for things out of deference to the judgement of CEA, but he does not actually judge himself to have done anything wrong and therefore that the statement is, despite appearances, not an admission of guilt. Clearly, everyone should massively increase the probability of (1) given the evidence, very plausibly well past 50%. FWIW, in my personal view (2) and (3) are extremely unlikely, and I am surprised to see them get such support here.
I cannot identify with your hypothetical. If someone came to me and said “you have done something wrong, please apologise”, I definitely would not apologise and withdraw from public life without knowing what I was meant to have done. If I thought I had not done anything wrong, I would not apologise. And this is a clear case in which I would have first-person authority on whether I did anything wrong. The norm of taking responsibility regardless of whether you know you did anything wrong seems very bad, and definitely not enlightened. Consider the implications for criminal law—does this imply that all people accused should submit guilty pleas merely because they have been accused?
And this is a clear case in which I would have first-person authority on whether I did anything wrong.
I think this is the main point of disagreement here. Generally when you make sexual or romantic advances on someone and those advances make them uncomfortable, you’re often not aware of the effect that you’re having (and they may not feel safe telling you), so you’re not the authority on whether you did something wrong.
Which is not to say that you’re guilty because they accused you! It’s possible to behave perfectly reasonably and for people around you to get upset, even to blame you for it. In that scenario you would not be guilty of doing anything wrong necessarily. But more often it looks like this:
someone does something inappropriate without realizing it,
impartial observers agree, having heard the facts, that it was inappropriate,
it seems clearly-enough inappropriate that the offender had a moral duty to identify it as such in advance and not do it.
Then they need to apologize and do what’s necessary to prevent it happening again, including withdrawing from the community if necessary.
I agree that the could be the case once in a person’s life for a single mild misdemeanour. But the reference class here is actions sufficient to make numerous individuals complain to the overall organisation leading a movement you are a part of, as well as additional evidence of people complaining to your university about you earlier in your life. I don’t think the vast majority of people would fail to know what they had done wrong in these cases.
Just to remark on the “criminal law” point – I think it’s appropriate to apply a different, and laxer, standard here than we do for criminal law, because:
the penalties are not criminal penalties, and in particular do not deprive anyone of anything they have a right to, like their property or freedom – CEA are free to exclude anyone from EAG who in their best judgement would make it a worse event to attend,
we don’t have access to the kinds of evidence or evidence-gathering resources that criminal courts do, so realistically it’s pretty likely that in most cases of misconduct or abuse we won’t have criminal-standard evidence that it happened, and we’ll have to either act despite that or never act at all. Some would defend never acting at all, I’m sure (or acting in only the most clear-cut cases), but I don’t think it’s the mainstream view.
“Consider the implications for criminal law—does this imply that all people accused should submit guilty pleas merely because they have been accused?”
Good example, actually, because false confessions are a thing. The fact that someone would confess or apologize alone does not entail guilt. You may not do it (or think you would), but false confessions happen because it’s easy to imagine you did something wrong when people you trust/fear are telling you you did. I’m sure being a scrupulous and ethical person steeped in social justice ideas about being naturally ignorant of the impact of your actions doesn’t help.
I believe we should respect what responsibility he takes above. I’m not trying to say he didn’t do something wrong (seems very possible as well) but I think trying to discern that from this formal apology is not really possible. Saying that you would never apologize like this if you were innocent just isn’t real evidence, since many people have.
I don’t think it is true that the above statement is not evidence of guilt. Firstly, you say yourself that we should take Jacy at his word, and he explicitly apologises for mistakes in the above and admits wrongdoing. Secondly, clearly his statement and the wider evidence is evidence of guilt in the sense that it is an update (a very large one) in favour of the proposition (1) that he has committed wrongdoing. This is true even if you think, as many commenters here seem to, that there is some probability that: (2) this is a kangaroo court and this is a coerced confession; or (3) that he’s apologising for things out of deference to the judgement of CEA, but he does not actually judge himself to have done anything wrong and therefore that the statement is, despite appearances, not an admission of guilt. Clearly, everyone should massively increase the probability of (1) given the evidence, very plausibly well past 50%. FWIW, in my personal view (2) and (3) are extremely unlikely, and I am surprised to see them get such support here.
I cannot identify with your hypothetical. If someone came to me and said “you have done something wrong, please apologise”, I definitely would not apologise and withdraw from public life without knowing what I was meant to have done. If I thought I had not done anything wrong, I would not apologise. And this is a clear case in which I would have first-person authority on whether I did anything wrong. The norm of taking responsibility regardless of whether you know you did anything wrong seems very bad, and definitely not enlightened. Consider the implications for criminal law—does this imply that all people accused should submit guilty pleas merely because they have been accused?
I think this is the main point of disagreement here. Generally when you make sexual or romantic advances on someone and those advances make them uncomfortable, you’re often not aware of the effect that you’re having (and they may not feel safe telling you), so you’re not the authority on whether you did something wrong.
Which is not to say that you’re guilty because they accused you! It’s possible to behave perfectly reasonably and for people around you to get upset, even to blame you for it. In that scenario you would not be guilty of doing anything wrong necessarily. But more often it looks like this:
someone does something inappropriate without realizing it,
impartial observers agree, having heard the facts, that it was inappropriate,
it seems clearly-enough inappropriate that the offender had a moral duty to identify it as such in advance and not do it.
Then they need to apologize and do what’s necessary to prevent it happening again, including withdrawing from the community if necessary.
I agree that the could be the case once in a person’s life for a single mild misdemeanour. But the reference class here is actions sufficient to make numerous individuals complain to the overall organisation leading a movement you are a part of, as well as additional evidence of people complaining to your university about you earlier in your life. I don’t think the vast majority of people would fail to know what they had done wrong in these cases.
Just to remark on the “criminal law” point – I think it’s appropriate to apply a different, and laxer, standard here than we do for criminal law, because:
the penalties are not criminal penalties, and in particular do not deprive anyone of anything they have a right to, like their property or freedom – CEA are free to exclude anyone from EAG who in their best judgement would make it a worse event to attend,
we don’t have access to the kinds of evidence or evidence-gathering resources that criminal courts do, so realistically it’s pretty likely that in most cases of misconduct or abuse we won’t have criminal-standard evidence that it happened, and we’ll have to either act despite that or never act at all. Some would defend never acting at all, I’m sure (or acting in only the most clear-cut cases), but I don’t think it’s the mainstream view.
.
“Consider the implications for criminal law—does this imply that all people accused should submit guilty pleas merely because they have been accused?”
Good example, actually, because false confessions are a thing. The fact that someone would confess or apologize alone does not entail guilt. You may not do it (or think you would), but false confessions happen because it’s easy to imagine you did something wrong when people you trust/fear are telling you you did. I’m sure being a scrupulous and ethical person steeped in social justice ideas about being naturally ignorant of the impact of your actions doesn’t help.
I believe we should respect what responsibility he takes above. I’m not trying to say he didn’t do something wrong (seems very possible as well) but I think trying to discern that from this formal apology is not really possible. Saying that you would never apologize like this if you were innocent just isn’t real evidence, since many people have.
.