Re “Cultural Revolution” comparison, let me put it this way: I’m a naturalized citizen of the US who has lived here for 30+ years, and recently I’ve spent 20+ hours researching the political climate and immigration policies of other countries I could potentially move to. I’ve also refrained multiple times from making a public comment on a topic that I have an opinion on (including on this forum), because of potential consequences that I’ve come to fear may happen in a few years or decades later. (To be clear I do not mean beatings, imprisonment, or being killed, except as unlikely tail risks, but more along the lines of public humiliation, forced confessions/apologies, career termination, and collective punishment of my family and associates.)
If there are better or equally valid historical analogies for thinking about what is happening and what it may lead to, I’m happy to hear them out. But if some people are just offended by the comparison, I can only say that I totally understand where they’re coming from.
I basically think the cultural revolution, witch hunts, and people being denounced as heretics are all equally good (and equally bad) comparisons. All three are examples of top-down, peer-enforced violence against an outgroup who can be accused for no reason.
The main differences I see here are that this doesn’t seem really top down (neither the Republican party nor the church seem fond of cancel culture) and this has more to do with reputation/livelihood than physical harm. (I have more thoughts about why they’re different but I’m self-censoring to be more convincing and because people are mean to me on the EA Forum e.g. when I suggest sexism exists in America.)
I suspect there are many other historical examples of people demonizing the outgroup as well.
The vast majority of witch hunts were not top-down as far as I remember from my cursory reading on this topic. They were usually driven by mobs and bottom-up social activity, with the church or other higher institutions usually trying to avoid getting involved with them.
Thanks Habryka. In that case, I take it back—witch hunts are a better analogy than the cultural revolution.
EDIT: I also prefer any analogy which emphasizes continuity. I don’t think people being “cancelled” this week face particularly different circumstances than Monica Lewinsky; I dislike analogies that suggest there’s been a sudden change in how American society behaves.
The witch hunts were sometimes endorsed/supported by the authorities, and other times not, just like the Red Guards:
Under Charlemagne, for example, Christians who practiced witchcraft were enslaved by the Church, while those who worshiped the Devil (Germanic gods) were killed outright.
By early 1967 Red Guard units were overthrowing existing party authorities in towns, cities, and entire provinces. These units soon began fighting among themselves, however, as various factions vied for power amidst each one’s claims that it was the true representative of Maoist thought. The Red Guards’ increasing factionalism and their total disruption of industrial production and of Chinese urban life caused the government in 1967–68 to urge the Red Guards to retire into the countryside. The Chinese military was called in to restore order throughout the country, and from this point the Red Guard movement gradually subsided.
I would say the most relevant difference between them is that witch hunts were more “organic”, in other words they happened pretty much everywhere where people believed in the possibility of witches (which was pretty much everywhere period), whereas the Cultural Revolution was driven/enabled entirely by ideology indoctrinated by schools, universities, and mass media propaganda.
Re “Cultural Revolution” comparison, let me put it this way: I’m a naturalized citizen of the US who has lived here for 30+ years, and recently I’ve spent 20+ hours researching the political climate and immigration policies of other countries I could potentially move to. I’ve also refrained multiple times from making a public comment on a topic that I have an opinion on (including on this forum), because of potential consequences that I’ve come to fear may happen in a few years or decades later. (To be clear I do not mean beatings, imprisonment, or being killed, except as unlikely tail risks, but more along the lines of public humiliation, forced confessions/apologies, career termination, and collective punishment of my family and associates.)
If there are better or equally valid historical analogies for thinking about what is happening and what it may lead to, I’m happy to hear them out. But if some people are just offended by the comparison, I can only say that I totally understand where they’re coming from.
I basically think the cultural revolution, witch hunts, and people being denounced as heretics are all equally good (and equally bad) comparisons. All three are examples of top-down, peer-enforced violence against an outgroup who can be accused for no reason.
The main differences I see here are that this doesn’t seem really top down (neither the Republican party nor the church seem fond of cancel culture) and this has more to do with reputation/livelihood than physical harm. (I have more thoughts about why they’re different but I’m self-censoring to be more convincing and because people are mean to me on the EA Forum e.g. when I suggest sexism exists in America.)
I suspect there are many other historical examples of people demonizing the outgroup as well.
The vast majority of witch hunts were not top-down as far as I remember from my cursory reading on this topic. They were usually driven by mobs and bottom-up social activity, with the church or other higher institutions usually trying to avoid getting involved with them.
Thanks Habryka. In that case, I take it back—witch hunts are a better analogy than the cultural revolution.
EDIT: I also prefer any analogy which emphasizes continuity. I don’t think people being “cancelled” this week face particularly different circumstances than Monica Lewinsky; I dislike analogies that suggest there’s been a sudden change in how American society behaves.
The witch hunts were sometimes endorsed/supported by the authorities, and other times not, just like the Red Guards:
I would say the most relevant difference between them is that witch hunts were more “organic”, in other words they happened pretty much everywhere where people believed in the possibility of witches (which was pretty much everywhere period), whereas the Cultural Revolution was driven/enabled entirely by ideology indoctrinated by schools, universities, and mass media propaganda.