I agree that it’s weird to discount experiences in dreams. I haven’t read that paper, but if we have genuine conscious preferences or pleasure or suffering in our dreams, then I imagine arguments that dreams don’t matter will prove too much:
If they don’t matter because we usually don’t remember them or they don’t really affect what happens after, then we don’t remember anything after we’re dead and life doesn’t really affect us after death, and so by a similar argument, what happens in our lives before death doesn’t matter, and nothing matters!
If they don’t matter in themselves because we’re not sufficiently reflective during them (but still assuming conscious experience), then nonhuman animals and certain humans are also not reflective enough to matter in themselves. Also, some extremely intense experiences, possibly torture or panic, may prevent reflection, but I wouldn’t be indifferent between them and unconsciousness, even setting indirect effects aside.
I also think the same way about infants’ experiences. I don’t remember anything from before around 3 or 4 years old, but that doesn’t mean my first 3 years of life didn’t matter to me at the time.
Maybe there are other important arguments I’ve missed, though. Maybe reflective preferences matter more in humans, but I would give intense suffering without reflection more weight.
(Of course, OP is also concerned with the effects of dreams on wakeful life.)
I also think the same way about infants’ experiences. I don’t remember anything from before around 3 or 4 years old, but that doesn’t mean my first 3 years of life didn’t matter to me at the time.
I agree with everything you said Michael. And this makes me think of the hernia operation that I can no longer remember. My mother told me that the doctor said he would give me some anesthetic. But I was still tied up by adhesive tapes and I was struggling violently during the operation, so much that the bruises on my limbs are still there after a week.
I agree that it’s weird to discount experiences in dreams. I haven’t read that paper, but if we have genuine conscious preferences or pleasure or suffering in our dreams, then I imagine arguments that dreams don’t matter will prove too much:
If they don’t matter because we usually don’t remember them or they don’t really affect what happens after, then we don’t remember anything after we’re dead and life doesn’t really affect us after death, and so by a similar argument, what happens in our lives before death doesn’t matter, and nothing matters!
If they don’t matter in themselves because we’re not sufficiently reflective during them (but still assuming conscious experience), then nonhuman animals and certain humans are also not reflective enough to matter in themselves. Also, some extremely intense experiences, possibly torture or panic, may prevent reflection, but I wouldn’t be indifferent between them and unconsciousness, even setting indirect effects aside.
I also think the same way about infants’ experiences. I don’t remember anything from before around 3 or 4 years old, but that doesn’t mean my first 3 years of life didn’t matter to me at the time.
Maybe there are other important arguments I’ve missed, though. Maybe reflective preferences matter more in humans, but I would give intense suffering without reflection more weight.
(Of course, OP is also concerned with the effects of dreams on wakeful life.)
I agree with everything you said Michael. And this makes me think of the hernia operation that I can no longer remember. My mother told me that the doctor said he would give me some anesthetic. But I was still tied up by adhesive tapes and I was struggling violently during the operation, so much that the bruises on my limbs are still there after a week.