We have been criticised by people who have encountered us briefly for things like:
Being excessively critical of others, especially too quickly and without establishing a relationship first
Not being friendly, focussing too much on trying to prove how smart we are
Not being diverse enough (especially on gender, racial or religious lines, and to a lesser extent socioeconomic, political, cultural and academic discipline)
As a result, being unwelcoming to people who are either superficially or substantively different to existing participants
As a result, converging prematurely on ideas that people from other backgrounds or fields would have good counterarguments for.
These seem like pretty serious concerns that we must address. They certainly all don’t apply to everyone, but looking at how we collectively come across I am not surprised some people react this way.
not being diverse enough (especially on gender, racial or religious lines, and to a lesser extent socioeconomic, political, cultural, and academic discipline)
One explanation for this I’ve encountered is just that effective altruism has been packaged by people of one sort that’s intuitive to people of the same sort. For example, the emphasis on quantification of social goods appeals to students of economics, and the idea of using new methods of reasoning and calculation to uncover greater effectiveness appeals to students of computer science, mathematics, and philosophy. Those groups tend to be largely dominated by young, white men to begin with. Additionally, effective altruism originated with an academic and secular approach to ethics, a discipline that tends to be followed by less religious people. Further, it doesn’t seem a coincidence that effective altruism, what with its focus on philanthropy, has primarily gained traction in wealthier countries in the Anglosphere.
In essence, the communites which first fed the numerical growth of effective altruism aren’t, and haven’t been, very diverse to begin with. So, effective altruism may not be so much at fault by this point for failing to be diverse. Going forward, it’s the responsibility of the movement to reach out, and broaden its horizons, with nuance and respect, to other communities. When poiting out the lack of diversity, do critics point out:
A) effective altruism doesn’t appear diverse, so this image problem leads to miscommunication wherein a more diverse crowd never joins the movement, because they fear feeling awkward, or out of place?
or
B) because of its lack of diversity, whether explicity or implicity, effective altruism seems to be offensive or ignorant of the needs and perspectives of individuals from more diverse or differentiated backgrounds?
An early impression I had of effective altruism, in getting to know it, one might find it elitist, based on its community origins in elite universities, such as the Oxbridge school in Britain, or the Ivy League universities in the United States. HIstorically, I’d figure racial minorities, some religious minorities, and poorer people, or ones of less elite classes, generally, don’t have access to this level of education. Some of my own discomfort with effective altruism is because others have access to this elite education, and I feel like I never did, and I’m a white man from Canada who was raised by a middle-class family. If I feel a bit left out already having so much opportunity, it must feel more awkward for those with less privilege than myself.
The heavier emphasis on earning to give a couple of years ago might have turned away a greater diversity of people who otherwise might have found effective altruism convincing or appealing in its ideas. To acquire a middle-class income, let alone a very high one that would be ideal for earning to give, requires access to acquire money to education, which is getting more expensive. To have that money, and access to a better education, is likelier the domain of people who were raised wealthier. Additionally, being raised in poverty is correlated with personal needs, such as poor health in the family, or lack of access to good resources, which might need to be persistently addressed. If I was in such a less privileged position, I might think earning to give is a lofty, ‘pie-in-the-sky’ goal beyond my means when I have enough trouble taking care of myself and my loved ones in a society that won’t prevent me from falling through its cracks. So, I won’t fault someone else in such a position for thinking the same.
This effect compounds with how marginalized groups such as women and minorities tend to have less access to opportunities to pursue a lifestyle that enables one to live life relatively risk-free, and in comfort, while still giving more of oneself that effective altruism requires. I’m not versed in the factors of all that, so I’ll stop here.
Those groups tend to be largely dominated by young, white men to begin with.
Most social movements are lead by young white men—EA is nothing special here.
To acquire a middle-class income … requires access to acquire money to education, which is getting more expensive.
That’s not true—at least in the US the government provides essentially unlimited credit to people who want to go to college, and furthermore it is possible to earn a very good living without having gone to college. Furthermore if you are the right kind of minority you will even benefit from affirmative action in admissions/scholarships.
By “group” in my initial comment, I meant the populations composing students of the formal sciences, economics, and philosophy. However, I concur most social, i.e., activist, advocacy, etc., movements are led by young white men. My point was that since this is true of many groups, not just effective altruism, I don’t believe effective altruism is somehow especially exclusionary relative to other social movements. I believe this point still stands.
I fully concede the point your rebuttal on income level, access to education, and social privilege. I should have qualified that I meant to acquire a high-class income is easier with more access to finances and other social privileges, but lack of access doesn’t preclude one. I admit I don’t know as much about how the American government funds post-secondary education.
I’m from Canada. In Canada, public post-secondary institutions are funded by the federal government such that a university education is much cheaper for Canadian students than it is for our counterparts in the US. However, in my personal experience, and that of my friends, access to credit is more restricted. So, if one is poorer, one can’t access loans and is less likely to have saved enough money to pay tuition out of pocket. I assumed things were the same in the United States, but apparently they’re not.
One way we can invite constructive criticism is by our response to criticisms we receive. That’s difficult for an amorphous ‘group’, but perhaps some invited posts on the forum trying yo vine to grips with these? Perhaps CEA could publish their current thinking on areas where they have encountered criticism (both from ‘inside’ and ‘outside’ the organisation)?
We have been criticised by people who have encountered us briefly for things like:
Being excessively critical of others, especially too quickly and without establishing a relationship first
Not being friendly, focussing too much on trying to prove how smart we are
Not being diverse enough (especially on gender, racial or religious lines, and to a lesser extent socioeconomic, political, cultural and academic discipline)
As a result, being unwelcoming to people who are either superficially or substantively different to existing participants
As a result, converging prematurely on ideas that people from other backgrounds or fields would have good counterarguments for.
These seem like pretty serious concerns that we must address. They certainly all don’t apply to everyone, but looking at how we collectively come across I am not surprised some people react this way.
One explanation for this I’ve encountered is just that effective altruism has been packaged by people of one sort that’s intuitive to people of the same sort. For example, the emphasis on quantification of social goods appeals to students of economics, and the idea of using new methods of reasoning and calculation to uncover greater effectiveness appeals to students of computer science, mathematics, and philosophy. Those groups tend to be largely dominated by young, white men to begin with. Additionally, effective altruism originated with an academic and secular approach to ethics, a discipline that tends to be followed by less religious people. Further, it doesn’t seem a coincidence that effective altruism, what with its focus on philanthropy, has primarily gained traction in wealthier countries in the Anglosphere.
In essence, the communites which first fed the numerical growth of effective altruism aren’t, and haven’t been, very diverse to begin with. So, effective altruism may not be so much at fault by this point for failing to be diverse. Going forward, it’s the responsibility of the movement to reach out, and broaden its horizons, with nuance and respect, to other communities. When poiting out the lack of diversity, do critics point out:
A) effective altruism doesn’t appear diverse, so this image problem leads to miscommunication wherein a more diverse crowd never joins the movement, because they fear feeling awkward, or out of place?
or
B) because of its lack of diversity, whether explicity or implicity, effective altruism seems to be offensive or ignorant of the needs and perspectives of individuals from more diverse or differentiated backgrounds?
An early impression I had of effective altruism, in getting to know it, one might find it elitist, based on its community origins in elite universities, such as the Oxbridge school in Britain, or the Ivy League universities in the United States. HIstorically, I’d figure racial minorities, some religious minorities, and poorer people, or ones of less elite classes, generally, don’t have access to this level of education. Some of my own discomfort with effective altruism is because others have access to this elite education, and I feel like I never did, and I’m a white man from Canada who was raised by a middle-class family. If I feel a bit left out already having so much opportunity, it must feel more awkward for those with less privilege than myself.
The heavier emphasis on earning to give a couple of years ago might have turned away a greater diversity of people who otherwise might have found effective altruism convincing or appealing in its ideas. To acquire a middle-class income, let alone a very high one that would be ideal for earning to give, requires access to acquire money to education, which is getting more expensive. To have that money, and access to a better education, is likelier the domain of people who were raised wealthier. Additionally, being raised in poverty is correlated with personal needs, such as poor health in the family, or lack of access to good resources, which might need to be persistently addressed. If I was in such a less privileged position, I might think earning to give is a lofty, ‘pie-in-the-sky’ goal beyond my means when I have enough trouble taking care of myself and my loved ones in a society that won’t prevent me from falling through its cracks. So, I won’t fault someone else in such a position for thinking the same.
This effect compounds with how marginalized groups such as women and minorities tend to have less access to opportunities to pursue a lifestyle that enables one to live life relatively risk-free, and in comfort, while still giving more of oneself that effective altruism requires. I’m not versed in the factors of all that, so I’ll stop here.
Most social movements are lead by young white men—EA is nothing special here.
That’s not true—at least in the US the government provides essentially unlimited credit to people who want to go to college, and furthermore it is possible to earn a very good living without having gone to college. Furthermore if you are the right kind of minority you will even benefit from affirmative action in admissions/scholarships.
By “group” in my initial comment, I meant the populations composing students of the formal sciences, economics, and philosophy. However, I concur most social, i.e., activist, advocacy, etc., movements are led by young white men. My point was that since this is true of many groups, not just effective altruism, I don’t believe effective altruism is somehow especially exclusionary relative to other social movements. I believe this point still stands.
I fully concede the point your rebuttal on income level, access to education, and social privilege. I should have qualified that I meant to acquire a high-class income is easier with more access to finances and other social privileges, but lack of access doesn’t preclude one. I admit I don’t know as much about how the American government funds post-secondary education.
I’m from Canada. In Canada, public post-secondary institutions are funded by the federal government such that a university education is much cheaper for Canadian students than it is for our counterparts in the US. However, in my personal experience, and that of my friends, access to credit is more restricted. So, if one is poorer, one can’t access loans and is less likely to have saved enough money to pay tuition out of pocket. I assumed things were the same in the United States, but apparently they’re not.
One way we can invite constructive criticism is by our response to criticisms we receive. That’s difficult for an amorphous ‘group’, but perhaps some invited posts on the forum trying yo vine to grips with these? Perhaps CEA could publish their current thinking on areas where they have encountered criticism (both from ‘inside’ and ‘outside’ the organisation)?