Yes, whatever the subject, whatever the thread, would down voters please explain their vote. How are authors supposed to respond to and maybe accommodate down voter’s concerns if down voting remains a secret anonymous procedure containing no useful information beyond “don’t like it”? If clicking on things and running is what works for someone, consider Facebook. Thanks.
I disagree with that. Downvotes are often valuable information, and requiring people to explain all downvotes would introduce too high a bar for downvoting.
In all cases perhaps, but it is strange to see objections that would be super obvious top-of-the-head stuff in climate circles dismissed out of hand here.
(Also can someone who knows more about the Forum than me explain how this reply has 51 points from 13 votes? Even if strong-upvotes count as double this is extremely inflated. Are the totals extremified or something? Is it multiplicative?)
I suppose all I have to say is that I often see very reasonable critiques downvoted through the floor without explanation worryingly often.
I haven’t theorised very much about the cause, but the phenomenon correlates suspiciously well with substantive or strong criticism of prominent figures within EA.
If this perception is accurate, it does not seem like good epistemic practice.
(This one has 14 points from 3 votes? Do three strong-upvotes produce 14 overall karma? Why?)
I’m flattered to be called a prominent figure in EA, but I think that is not really true. If people want to criticise the substantive claims in the report, I am happy to have that discussion and I think people on the Forum would appreciate it
I presume that you are assuming I am Zoe Cremer here. I am not Zoe (Carla? Which is her actual first name?) and I have never met her, but feel free to assume only one person has issues with EA norms if you want. That post has 200 upvotes: some people must have agreed with her, even if you didn’t.
Based on Cremer’s recent statements in and around the MacAskill profile in the New Yorker she seems to be completely worn out by EA and has largely lost interest: presumably not someone who would dedicate very much time to getting into EA Forum comment wars?
This isn’t just an issue with the karma system (though artificially magnifying the ratings of somewhat popular comments so that 7 votes can produce a rating of over 25 is definitely an odd choice) it’s a cultural issue. Why did you ignore these aspects and focus the most technical issue?
Yes, whatever the subject, whatever the thread, would down voters please explain their vote. How are authors supposed to respond to and maybe accommodate down voter’s concerns if down voting remains a secret anonymous procedure containing no useful information beyond “don’t like it”? If clicking on things and running is what works for someone, consider Facebook. Thanks.
I disagree with that. Downvotes are often valuable information, and requiring people to explain all downvotes would introduce too high a bar for downvoting.
In all cases perhaps, but it is strange to see objections that would be super obvious top-of-the-head stuff in climate circles dismissed out of hand here.
(Also can someone who knows more about the Forum than me explain how this reply has 51 points from 13 votes? Even if strong-upvotes count as double this is extremely inflated. Are the totals extremified or something? Is it multiplicative?)
I wouldn’t characterise it as dismissing out of hand.
What would you call it?
I suppose all I have to say is that I often see very reasonable critiques downvoted through the floor without explanation worryingly often.
I haven’t theorised very much about the cause, but the phenomenon correlates suspiciously well with substantive or strong criticism of prominent figures within EA.
If this perception is accurate, it does not seem like good epistemic practice.
(This one has 14 points from 3 votes? Do three strong-upvotes produce 14 overall karma? Why?)
I’m flattered to be called a prominent figure in EA, but I think that is not really true. If people want to criticise the substantive claims in the report, I am happy to have that discussion and I think people on the Forum would appreciate it
You may think this, but (some) people on the Forum clearly do not.
I think this strongly contributes to groupthink.
People will subconsciously adapt their views to match the majority to some extent, and assume that a post or comment has the rating it does for a reason. This is exacerbated by the [issues around hierarchy and hero-worship EA sometimes has.](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/DxfpGi9hwvwLCf5iQ/objections-to-value-alignment-between-effective-altruists)
Hi Zoe, what is your proposed alternative to a karma system?
I presume that you are assuming I am Zoe Cremer here. I am not Zoe (Carla? Which is her actual first name?) and I have never met her, but feel free to assume only one person has issues with EA norms if you want. That post has 200 upvotes: some people must have agreed with her, even if you didn’t.
Based on Cremer’s recent statements in and around the MacAskill profile in the New Yorker she seems to be completely worn out by EA and has largely lost interest: presumably not someone who would dedicate very much time to getting into EA Forum comment wars?
This isn’t just an issue with the karma system (though artificially magnifying the ratings of somewhat popular comments so that 7 votes can produce a rating of over 25 is definitely an odd choice) it’s a cultural issue. Why did you ignore these aspects and focus the most technical issue?