Here’s a simple example: imagine that you, or someone you were responsible for taking care of, had medical expenses of $100k/year. In that case, $75k wouldn’t even let you break even, you’d still be taking on lots of debt.
Other examples: you have debt, you have kids (and/or other relatives you’re financially responsible for), you live in a high cost of living location, or various other factors that have no relation to someone’s suitability for a job.
Given the numbers that we have in mind, these examples are all very specific to the US.
Medical expenses don’t get much past $2k per year in most European countries. The only place where cost of living is prohibitively high past a ~$30k income, is San Francisco.
I’m not arguing against the idea that some people exist that should be given the $150k that is needed to unlock their talents. I’m arguing that this group of people might be very small, and concentrated in your bubble.
I think that’s the crux of the argument. If a majority of senior people needed $150k to get by, I’d agree that that should be the wage you offer. If these people make up just 1% of the population (which seems true to me), offering $150k to everyone else is just going to cause a lot of subtle cultural damage.
I’m not arguing against the idea that some people exist that should be given the $150k that is needed to unlock their talents. I’m arguing that this group of people might be very small, and concentrated in your bubble.
I think that’s the crux of the argument. If a majority of senior people needed $150k to get by, I’d agree that that should be the wage you offer. If these people make up just 1% of the population (which seems true to me), offering $150k to everyone else is just going to cause a lot of subtle cultural damage.
Very well put. Agree this is the crux of our disagreement; my intuition is that there’s a much larger pool of people who would be enticed by the higher pay.
I think it would be very difficult to raise a family in London on $30k (or even £30k). Rent for a family home in good repair in Zone 2 is like £2000 a month. So a £30k salary would only cover the rent of a place like that.
To make £30k work, you’d have to live quite far away and have a long commute, which has a major impact on quality of life. I think that’s true in many other major cities.
30 was just an arbitrary number. Is London still hard to live in for 60? Mind that the suggestion is to raise salaries from 75k to 100k. I can’t imagine many cases where 75k is prohibitive, except for those that feel a need to be competitive with their peers from industry (which, fwiw, is not something I outright disapprove of)
We should probably operationalize this argument with actual data instead of reasoning from availability.
Using NYC as an (admittedly US-centric and high cost of living) example, the average cost of private school is ~$18k/year, and many of the good ones are around $50k. So if you think of a couple that wants to have a couple of kids, doesn’t want to send them to a bad (possibly dangerous) public school, and would like to put those kids through college, it’s unlikely those people would even consider non-profit work unless they had unusual circumstances that would allow them to do so (e.g. one partner with particularly high earning power, a trust-fund, etc.)
Here’s a simple example: imagine that you, or someone you were responsible for taking care of, had medical expenses of $100k/year. In that case, $75k wouldn’t even let you break even, you’d still be taking on lots of debt.
Other examples: you have debt, you have kids (and/or other relatives you’re financially responsible for), you live in a high cost of living location, or various other factors that have no relation to someone’s suitability for a job.
Given the numbers that we have in mind, these examples are all very specific to the US.
Medical expenses don’t get much past $2k per year in most European countries. The only place where cost of living is prohibitively high past a ~$30k income, is San Francisco.
I’m not arguing against the idea that some people exist that should be given the $150k that is needed to unlock their talents. I’m arguing that this group of people might be very small, and concentrated in your bubble.
I think that’s the crux of the argument. If a majority of senior people needed $150k to get by, I’d agree that that should be the wage you offer. If these people make up just 1% of the population (which seems true to me), offering $150k to everyone else is just going to cause a lot of subtle cultural damage.
Very well put. Agree this is the crux of our disagreement; my intuition is that there’s a much larger pool of people who would be enticed by the higher pay.
I think it would be very difficult to raise a family in London on $30k (or even £30k). Rent for a family home in good repair in Zone 2 is like £2000 a month. So a £30k salary would only cover the rent of a place like that.
To make £30k work, you’d have to live quite far away and have a long commute, which has a major impact on quality of life. I think that’s true in many other major cities.
30 was just an arbitrary number. Is London still hard to live in for 60? Mind that the suggestion is to raise salaries from 75k to 100k. I can’t imagine many cases where 75k is prohibitive, except for those that feel a need to be competitive with their peers from industry (which, fwiw, is not something I outright disapprove of)
We should probably operationalize this argument with actual data instead of reasoning from availability.
Using NYC as an (admittedly US-centric and high cost of living) example, the average cost of private school is ~$18k/year, and many of the good ones are around $50k. So if you think of a couple that wants to have a couple of kids, doesn’t want to send them to a bad (possibly dangerous) public school, and would like to put those kids through college, it’s unlikely those people would even consider non-profit work unless they had unusual circumstances that would allow them to do so (e.g. one partner with particularly high earning power, a trust-fund, etc.)
Okay, you’ve convinced me that a US based EA organisation should consider raising their wages to attract top talent.
This data does make me doubt the wisdom of basing non-local activities in the US, but that is another matter.