“That’s not what’s happening here, because the case in question is an abstract discussion of a huge policy question regarding what stance we should take in the future, with little time pressure. These are precisely the areas where we should be consequentialist if ever we should be.”
Most people’s thinking is not nearly as targeted and consequentialist as this. On my model of human psychology, supporting the exploitation of animals in service of third-world development reinforces the belief that animals are for human benefit in general (rather than in this one instance where the benefits to all sentient beings were found to outweigh the harms). Given that speciesism is responsible for the vast majority of human-caused suffering, I think we should be extremely careful about supporting animal exploitation, even when it looks net-positive at first blush.
And I’m not concerned about EA looking “heartless and crazy” by endorsing livestock as a development tool, I was just pointing out that there are certain things EA should take off the table for signalling and memetic reasons.
“I doubt that we are well-advised to insist that people in the developing world cannot should not own animals as assets (regardless of the balance of cost and benefits).”
There’s a difference between insisting that people in the developing world not own animals as assets, which I agree would be mistaken, and opposing the adoption of livestock ownership as a development strategy.
I answered some of the broader concerns above in my first reply, but I sympathize with Jesse’s concern that promoting animal ownership in the developing world makes our support for animals seem unserious. I don’t think it’s that people look at us and say “hypocrites” or insufficiently absolutist but rather that they look at us and say “ahah, even they think it’s okay to own animals, just not if you treat them badly.”
“That’s not what’s happening here, because the case in question is an abstract discussion of a huge policy question regarding what stance we should take in the future, with little time pressure. These are precisely the areas where we should be consequentialist if ever we should be.”
Most people’s thinking is not nearly as targeted and consequentialist as this. On my model of human psychology, supporting the exploitation of animals in service of third-world development reinforces the belief that animals are for human benefit in general (rather than in this one instance where the benefits to all sentient beings were found to outweigh the harms). Given that speciesism is responsible for the vast majority of human-caused suffering, I think we should be extremely careful about supporting animal exploitation, even when it looks net-positive at first blush.
And I’m not concerned about EA looking “heartless and crazy” by endorsing livestock as a development tool, I was just pointing out that there are certain things EA should take off the table for signalling and memetic reasons.
“I doubt that we are well-advised to insist that people in the developing world cannot should not own animals as assets (regardless of the balance of cost and benefits).”
There’s a difference between insisting that people in the developing world not own animals as assets, which I agree would be mistaken, and opposing the adoption of livestock ownership as a development strategy.
I answered some of the broader concerns above in my first reply, but I sympathize with Jesse’s concern that promoting animal ownership in the developing world makes our support for animals seem unserious. I don’t think it’s that people look at us and say “hypocrites” or insufficiently absolutist but rather that they look at us and say “ahah, even they think it’s okay to own animals, just not if you treat them badly.”