I like it and agree, but idk if I find it as easy as that. I’m pretty sure I get downvoted when I don’t make modesty overt. It seems key on EA facebook and EA Slack too. Without it, does a controversial point get integrated into the discussion? Idk.
In footnote 1, you say. “If I can seem more humble by adding two more words, I usually say it’s worth the cost—but I’m aware that I am profiting only myself, and it is my readers that pay the cost.”
But if an average EA will absorb your argument better when written in humble-mode, then it is the average EA who is helped by your humble writing. Or, the writer pays a tax, not the reader. The EA forum to me seems like it has an arms race of humble writing, where if you don’t convey your ideas humbly, your ideas look worse in comparison to others.
If this is true, can we even deescalate? Personally, I care too much about what I write to risk screwing myself and my argument by writing plainly.[1] I’d guess others do too. If modesty is what the forum readers and EA decision-makers seem to reward, that is what they will get. [2]
Hopefully your post is the start of changing it though. Maybe it’s time the EA forum commenting guidelines were edited? The community might need reminders or Moloch might swallow this one up. “Be chill” or “be yourself” or “it’s okay to be confident” might be nice to see every time I open the commenting field.
Especially from women/AFAB, who are already trained in it, and also have the cultural disincentive from trying anything else. Personally, I’m half-expecting to be seen as a bitch or at least unrelatable even when I make modesty or warmth a priority, and I can’t be the only one.
“The EA forum to me seems like it has an arms race of humble writing, where if you don’t convey your ideas humbly, your ideas look worse in comparison to others.”
Precisely!
And yeah, because of this, I do a lot of humility which I know will only contribute to the arms race but I still do it because I think the object-level message is important enough in that case. I was calling it “self-profiteering” only at recursion level 1.
I’m less optimistic about this post being “the start of a change”, but maybe it can cause some people to be less judgmental in their reading, and thereby notice when some seemingly brazen people are being exceedingly kind—like me!
Hm. Yeah maybe solution is to just write more comments. If you write more, you don’t have to risk your best arguments to pepper the forum culture with non-modesty. Like, for every comment we write with a natural vibe, at least we are bringing down the modesty-arms-race average.
I like it and agree, but idk if I find it as easy as that. I’m pretty sure I get downvoted when I don’t make modesty overt. It seems key on EA facebook and EA Slack too. Without it, does a controversial point get integrated into the discussion? Idk.
In footnote 1, you say. “If I can seem more humble by adding two more words, I usually say it’s worth the cost—but I’m aware that I am profiting only myself, and it is my readers that pay the cost.”
But if an average EA will absorb your argument better when written in humble-mode, then it is the average EA who is helped by your humble writing. Or, the writer pays a tax, not the reader. The EA forum to me seems like it has an arms race of humble writing, where if you don’t convey your ideas humbly, your ideas look worse in comparison to others.
If this is true, can we even deescalate? Personally, I care too much about what I write to risk screwing myself and my argument by writing plainly.[1] I’d guess others do too. If modesty is what the forum readers and EA decision-makers seem to reward, that is what they will get. [2]
Hopefully your post is the start of changing it though. Maybe it’s time the EA forum commenting guidelines were edited? The community might need reminders or Moloch might swallow this one up. “Be chill” or “be yourself” or “it’s okay to be confident” might be nice to see every time I open the commenting field.
If I spend a truly disgusting time editing each comment for modesty, I can screw only me. See, big brain right there.
Especially from women/AFAB, who are already trained in it, and also have the cultural disincentive from trying anything else. Personally, I’m half-expecting to be seen as a bitch or at least unrelatable even when I make modesty or warmth a priority, and I can’t be the only one.
Precisely!
And yeah, because of this, I do a lot of humility which I know will only contribute to the arms race but I still do it because I think the object-level message is important enough in that case. I was calling it “self-profiteering” only at recursion level 1.
I’m less optimistic about this post being “the start of a change”, but maybe it can cause some people to be less judgmental in their reading, and thereby notice when some seemingly brazen people are being exceedingly kind—like me!
Hm. Yeah maybe solution is to just write more comments. If you write more, you don’t have to risk your best arguments to pepper the forum culture with non-modesty. Like, for every comment we write with a natural vibe, at least we are bringing down the modesty-arms-race average.
Good idea! Inundate the forum! Already on it! ^^