In respect to politeness and avoiding hostile conversation, you might reconsider your post here. Plenty of people in this community would probably fit the label ‘social justice warrior’ (like the term political correctness before it, this term seems to be used to dismiss wholesale people whose only distinguishing feature is advocating people not being dicks to each other). It’s disappointing to read something in this forum where I find myself labelled unfit for association.
this term seems to be used to dismiss wholesale people whose only distinguishing feature is advocating people not being dicks to each other
If the only sense in which you’re a SJW is that you think people should be nice to each other, then you’re using the word differently from most people, and this does not apply to you—I’m not telling Jeff to avoid people who want to be nice!
But the problem with this definition is it could describe almost any ideology! Marxists think they’re ‘advocating people not being dicks to each other’ by ending exploitation. Libertarians think they’re ‘advocating people not being dicks to each other’ by ending coercion. I think you’re in danger of committing the motte and bailey fallacy. One thing that is reasonably distinctive about social justice warriors on the internet, on the other hand, is using language like ‘privilege’ to attack white male nerds. Just being concerned about social justice doesn’t make you a SJW—I don’t think many people would call the these academic philosophers SJWs, for example. But I’m reasonably confident that as a
white
male
programmer
who lives in a Boston
and spends time on the internet
and is interested in social issues, politics etc.
and makes decent money
all of which are risk factors for SJW attention, Jeff will have received some such heated criticism. Furthermore, this is exactly the sort of article I would want to write as I was a generally liberal person who felt unfairly attacked by what I think of as ‘my side’ politically.
I think you’re in danger of committing the motte and bailey fallacy.
Actually my problem with the term ‘Social Justice Warrior’, and my reason for commenting in the first place, is precisely that. You give one definition of the phrase that might be perfectly defensible, but the way it is actually used (in general, not only in your post) smuggles in extra meaning which can be dismissive or silencing. You may not intend that other meaning at all, but it’s out there in common use, so we don’t get to just ignore it.
That extra meaning is smuggled in very easily. For example, in your own comment, you include a sentence which implies (as I understand it) that people on the internet are not genuine when they comment on issues of equality if they don’t ‘spend all their time campaigning about Rotherham or ISIS’. That strikes me as massively unfair. Like you, I work long hours earning to give and support SCI, partly because I think the best way to help marginalised groups is to fight poverty. (I do actually think we’re on the same side). But I don’t think that means I have to give up the right to express an opinion about how gender affects me systematically, or that I’m let off the hook for understanding how inequality affects other people in the world I inhabit. The term privilege is useful in such conversations, as Jeff has eloquently explained here.
And yes, I do so on the internet (where lots of conversation happens), and I may be conversing with (or even criticise) a white man (since I know lots). It really isn’t taking a leap to feel that your term and broad dismissal apply to me, even when you didn’t intend it that way.
Finally I am sorry, because I get the feeling you feel a bit piled on after writing a comment that was intended to support an ally. I can understand that, and I’m sorry for contributing to that feeling. I think we share the goal of this being a supportive community. To that end I hope I’ve been able to explain why other people who are part of this community might reasonably be alienated by the way you expressed your support. If I’ve failed, then I guess it’s best to leave the conversation here.
In respect to politeness and avoiding hostile conversation, you might reconsider your post here. Plenty of people in this community would probably fit the label ‘social justice warrior’ (like the term political correctness before it, this term seems to be used to dismiss wholesale people whose only distinguishing feature is advocating people not being dicks to each other). It’s disappointing to read something in this forum where I find myself labelled unfit for association.
If the only sense in which you’re a SJW is that you think people should be nice to each other, then you’re using the word differently from most people, and this does not apply to you—I’m not telling Jeff to avoid people who want to be nice!
But the problem with this definition is it could describe almost any ideology! Marxists think they’re ‘advocating people not being dicks to each other’ by ending exploitation. Libertarians think they’re ‘advocating people not being dicks to each other’ by ending coercion. I think you’re in danger of committing the motte and bailey fallacy. One thing that is reasonably distinctive about social justice warriors on the internet, on the other hand, is using language like ‘privilege’ to attack white male nerds. Just being concerned about social justice doesn’t make you a SJW—I don’t think many people would call the these academic philosophers SJWs, for example. But I’m reasonably confident that as a
white
male
programmer
who lives in a Boston
and spends time on the internet
and is interested in social issues, politics etc.
and makes decent money
all of which are risk factors for SJW attention, Jeff will have received some such heated criticism. Furthermore, this is exactly the sort of article I would want to write as I was a generally liberal person who felt unfairly attacked by what I think of as ‘my side’ politically.
This is indeed how the phrase has been used in my experience (see [this comment][http://effective-altruism.com/ea/dx/the_privilege_of_earning_to_give/2d4] for reference)
Actually my problem with the term ‘Social Justice Warrior’, and my reason for commenting in the first place, is precisely that. You give one definition of the phrase that might be perfectly defensible, but the way it is actually used (in general, not only in your post) smuggles in extra meaning which can be dismissive or silencing. You may not intend that other meaning at all, but it’s out there in common use, so we don’t get to just ignore it.
That extra meaning is smuggled in very easily. For example, in your own comment, you include a sentence which implies (as I understand it) that people on the internet are not genuine when they comment on issues of equality if they don’t ‘spend all their time campaigning about Rotherham or ISIS’. That strikes me as massively unfair. Like you, I work long hours earning to give and support SCI, partly because I think the best way to help marginalised groups is to fight poverty. (I do actually think we’re on the same side). But I don’t think that means I have to give up the right to express an opinion about how gender affects me systematically, or that I’m let off the hook for understanding how inequality affects other people in the world I inhabit. The term privilege is useful in such conversations, as Jeff has eloquently explained here.
And yes, I do so on the internet (where lots of conversation happens), and I may be conversing with (or even criticise) a white man (since I know lots). It really isn’t taking a leap to feel that your term and broad dismissal apply to me, even when you didn’t intend it that way.
Finally I am sorry, because I get the feeling you feel a bit piled on after writing a comment that was intended to support an ally. I can understand that, and I’m sorry for contributing to that feeling. I think we share the goal of this being a supportive community. To that end I hope I’ve been able to explain why other people who are part of this community might reasonably be alienated by the way you expressed your support. If I’ve failed, then I guess it’s best to leave the conversation here.