...it seems to me that EA is answering a question. The question is “what should I do with my life” and the answer is “do the most good with the resources available to me.”
I’m really glad you stated this clearly (and it’s the same idea as in pappubahry’s comment). If this were the core idea of EA, then I agree that this whole post would be incorrect.
Is it the core idea though? None of the introductions I linked to above mention anything about what one “should” do. Certainly there are several EA organisations that are linked to spreading the idea of EA & motivating more people to donate, but that seems to me to be easily explained by:
The ease with which resources can be turned into life-improvements (“ease” referring to convenience, speed, low information barriers) compared to just about any other time in human history.
The stable instrumental goal of trying to spread one’s own values, to make it more likely they are fulfilled.
My impression is not that the organisations in question (which are made up of aspiring effective altruists, or people interested in Effective Altruism, or whatever) see some kind of terminal value in persuading others to dedicate their lives to helping others. Certainly I find the idea of this (persuade others to do good with their resources) being a core motivating philosophy of my life very off-putting.
One of the things I love about EA (or perhaps just my interpretation of EA) is that it’s driven by curiosity and compassion, not moralising.
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For your second point:
I think what you’ve said actually splits into two things:
a) Should we promote having an EA identity, and
b) Should people who have that identity call themselves “effective altruists”
I think you’re right about a), and about the huge benefits of community, signalling, self-signalling, commitment etc that come with making Effective Altruism part of one’s identity.
But I don’t think it necessarily follows that the name “effective altruists” is the best way to refer to oneself, and one of the reasons I wrote this post was to point out the downsides of using that phrase.
I particularly care about the first impressions of people who have the potential to have a large impact on the world—who I expect will generally be more analytical, better informed and more sceptical than the typical person. In my experience organising EA Melbourne, this kind of person is often really put off by a group of people who just get together every few weeks to talk about stuff, and who call themselves both effective and altruistic. They are also put off if people in that group claim (as lots do, initially) that maximising your earnings and donating to global health charities is the best way to improve the world.
I think it’s really important that our memes don’t get stuck on one object-level strategy like that.
(I do wish I could think of another identifier that’s as pithy as “effective altruist” though.)
I’m still not sure how to distinguish between EA as a question versus an answer. You mention that the “should” component of my question is not represented in the intros to EA. I suspect that this is a PR move, not a philosophical move. In any case, I can rewrite the question to avoid this. The question might be “what’s the best way to improve the world?” Where EA provides some tentative answers (reduce X-risk, earn to give) and a general schema for answering the question (use the best available reasoning tools to analyze your options and then act on one of them).
Based on the way people in this community behave, they seem to see EA as an answer not a question. Questions don’t seem to generate identity and radical life change. Yet both of these sometimes occur in EA.
In terms of the actual term “effective altruist,” I agree that there are downsides to the term. It can be elitist and condescending. But, I’ve never really seen a better term. My guess is that it’s at least close to being the best available option.
A separate question is how closely the EA meme should be related to sub-memes like earn to give or X-risk. I agree with your concern that we don’t want to be defined by any particular object-level strategy, but I don’t see that the name or identity of EA as currently construed is a problem. It seems to me to be a great strength of the EA meme that we have created a social movement where what people actually do is relatively diverse. My sense of other social movements is that this is not the case.
How about “rational altruists?” This to me is actually a better descriptor of the head and the heart than effective altruist, as a person could be really effective (on a QALY basis) without using the head at all—Live Aid was essentially emotionally driven, and drove a huge groundswell of support for tackling extreme poverty. The thing that sets effective altruism as currently named apart is the very high level of rational thinking that goes on in deciding what to do. Whether that is more or less effective than other approaches is probably an unhelpful starting point when it comes to outreach, as it can indeed sound arrogant, and ignores the fact that most people are emotionally driven in deciding how to give.
Thanks for mentioning that you run EA Melbourne—I think this difference in perspective is what’s driving our -ism/-ist disagreement that I talk about in my earlier comment. I’ve never been to an EA meetup group (I moved away from Brisbane earlier in February, missing out by about half a year on the new group that’s just starting there...), and I’d wondered what EA “looked like” in these contexts. If a lot of it is just meeting up every few weeks for a chat about EA-ish topics, then I agree that “effective altruist” is a dubious term if applied to everyone there.
Is it the core idea though? None of the introductions I linked to above mention anything about what one “should” do.
Perhaps a different phrasing would be a little better, but however it’s worded, moral beliefs and/or moral reasoning motivated most of what I see in the EA movement today—totally fundamental to everything, even if it’s not always explicitly stated. Certainly what keeps me sending out donations every month or so is the internal conviction that it’s the right thing to do.
Maybe this is another difference of perspective thing? Like if many of the EA people you see are more passive consumers of EA material, instead of structuring their lives/finances around it, then the fundamental moral motivation of introductions to EA seems absent? I don’t know.
Certainly I find the idea of this (persuade others to do good with their resources) being a core motivating philosophy of my life very off-putting.
I see the core motivating philosophy of my life as trying to do good with my resources. Some no doubt see persuading others as an important part of their resources (I mostly fail at it), but to me EA most fundamentally is about maximising one’s own impact, in whichever ways one can.
Great comment, thanks Kerry. To your first point:
I’m really glad you stated this clearly (and it’s the same idea as in pappubahry’s comment). If this were the core idea of EA, then I agree that this whole post would be incorrect.
Is it the core idea though? None of the introductions I linked to above mention anything about what one “should” do. Certainly there are several EA organisations that are linked to spreading the idea of EA & motivating more people to donate, but that seems to me to be easily explained by:
The ease with which resources can be turned into life-improvements (“ease” referring to convenience, speed, low information barriers) compared to just about any other time in human history.
The stable instrumental goal of trying to spread one’s own values, to make it more likely they are fulfilled.
My impression is not that the organisations in question (which are made up of aspiring effective altruists, or people interested in Effective Altruism, or whatever) see some kind of terminal value in persuading others to dedicate their lives to helping others. Certainly I find the idea of this (persuade others to do good with their resources) being a core motivating philosophy of my life very off-putting.
One of the things I love about EA (or perhaps just my interpretation of EA) is that it’s driven by curiosity and compassion, not moralising.
--
For your second point:
I think what you’ve said actually splits into two things:
a) Should we promote having an EA identity, and b) Should people who have that identity call themselves “effective altruists”
I think you’re right about a), and about the huge benefits of community, signalling, self-signalling, commitment etc that come with making Effective Altruism part of one’s identity.
But I don’t think it necessarily follows that the name “effective altruists” is the best way to refer to oneself, and one of the reasons I wrote this post was to point out the downsides of using that phrase.
I particularly care about the first impressions of people who have the potential to have a large impact on the world—who I expect will generally be more analytical, better informed and more sceptical than the typical person. In my experience organising EA Melbourne, this kind of person is often really put off by a group of people who just get together every few weeks to talk about stuff, and who call themselves both effective and altruistic. They are also put off if people in that group claim (as lots do, initially) that maximising your earnings and donating to global health charities is the best way to improve the world.
I think it’s really important that our memes don’t get stuck on one object-level strategy like that.
(I do wish I could think of another identifier that’s as pithy as “effective altruist” though.)
What do you think?
I’m still not sure how to distinguish between EA as a question versus an answer. You mention that the “should” component of my question is not represented in the intros to EA. I suspect that this is a PR move, not a philosophical move. In any case, I can rewrite the question to avoid this. The question might be “what’s the best way to improve the world?” Where EA provides some tentative answers (reduce X-risk, earn to give) and a general schema for answering the question (use the best available reasoning tools to analyze your options and then act on one of them).
Based on the way people in this community behave, they seem to see EA as an answer not a question. Questions don’t seem to generate identity and radical life change. Yet both of these sometimes occur in EA.
In terms of the actual term “effective altruist,” I agree that there are downsides to the term. It can be elitist and condescending. But, I’ve never really seen a better term. My guess is that it’s at least close to being the best available option.
A separate question is how closely the EA meme should be related to sub-memes like earn to give or X-risk. I agree with your concern that we don’t want to be defined by any particular object-level strategy, but I don’t see that the name or identity of EA as currently construed is a problem. It seems to me to be a great strength of the EA meme that we have created a social movement where what people actually do is relatively diverse. My sense of other social movements is that this is not the case.
How about “rational altruists?” This to me is actually a better descriptor of the head and the heart than effective altruist, as a person could be really effective (on a QALY basis) without using the head at all—Live Aid was essentially emotionally driven, and drove a huge groundswell of support for tackling extreme poverty. The thing that sets effective altruism as currently named apart is the very high level of rational thinking that goes on in deciding what to do. Whether that is more or less effective than other approaches is probably an unhelpful starting point when it comes to outreach, as it can indeed sound arrogant, and ignores the fact that most people are emotionally driven in deciding how to give.
Thanks for mentioning that you run EA Melbourne—I think this difference in perspective is what’s driving our -ism/-ist disagreement that I talk about in my earlier comment. I’ve never been to an EA meetup group (I moved away from Brisbane earlier in February, missing out by about half a year on the new group that’s just starting there...), and I’d wondered what EA “looked like” in these contexts. If a lot of it is just meeting up every few weeks for a chat about EA-ish topics, then I agree that “effective altruist” is a dubious term if applied to everyone there.
Perhaps a different phrasing would be a little better, but however it’s worded, moral beliefs and/or moral reasoning motivated most of what I see in the EA movement today—totally fundamental to everything, even if it’s not always explicitly stated. Certainly what keeps me sending out donations every month or so is the internal conviction that it’s the right thing to do.
Maybe this is another difference of perspective thing? Like if many of the EA people you see are more passive consumers of EA material, instead of structuring their lives/finances around it, then the fundamental moral motivation of introductions to EA seems absent? I don’t know.
I see the core motivating philosophy of my life as trying to do good with my resources. Some no doubt see persuading others as an important part of their resources (I mostly fail at it), but to me EA most fundamentally is about maximising one’s own impact, in whichever ways one can.