Thanks for sharing this concern, which is very reasonable.
One of the things that motivated us to run this contest was the desire to have a lot of interesting new content on the Forum — we want people checking in regularly to see new stories, commenting on submissions, and digging through the archives even after the contest is over.
If we used a standard “read submissions in private, publish the best” model, we’d be missing out on that, even if we still achieved our other goal of “find a few really top-notch things to share”.
But I do acknowledge that this presents authors with a conundrum if they want to publish stories elsewhere. Would the following arrangement be fine?
Publish your entry on the Forum
If you win, you leave the post up
If you don’t win, you move the post back to a draft (where Google won’t find it)
This seems like it opens up the chance to submit the story elsewhere again (since no one will be able to read it on the Forum anymore). And if it doesn’t end up getting published elsewhere, you can just go back to your draft post and hit “publish”.
Would this work, or do you think something ever having been published, even if it disappeared again, would make it impossible to submit to some/many places?
I completely understand your goal, which is very reasonable!
But most publishers consider ‘was printed in an obscure magazine that sold ten copies and is now a collector’s item, has never been printed since’ to be ‘printed’. Some people buying reprints are only interested in that kind of obscure thing, but even if it is ‘already published obscurely’, I still think you won’t get much for the reprint.
So although that’s an understandable try at a solution, I don’t think it succeeds.
Thanks for the further feedback. I’ll think more on whether we should open some kind of private submission option, and we may end up doing so. It would be really sad if authors were forced to sacrifice future opportunities in order to participate.
If you’re looking for a compromise solution, stories submitted to the Grantville Gazette Universe Annex (Baen’s magazine) are submitted by being posted on a password-protected forum (Baen’s Bar) that anyone can get an account for, where readers can critique them, then a subset of those are purchased and professionally published in the magazine. Posting a story on Baen’s Bar is generally (some people say explicitly, and it appears to be the consensus unless I’m making a horrible mistake) not considered publication, and stories posted there don’t appear in Google searches.
You’d want to do more research into this, but if you’re interested, it might provide you a base to work off of.
I second interest in a private submission / private forum option! I intend to submit my entry to a few places soon, but that won’t be possible if it’s “published” by submitting it here. If there isn’t a private option I probably won’t submit here.
I think this is a really well intentioned and thoughtful reply.
However, hiding publication on an internet forum seems technically dubious (archiving and forum scraping seems common).
Also, this wasn’t the intention, but it does seem to be the same as, well, fraud. My guess is that authors are required to state their story isn’t published (and removing it after the fact doesn’t alter this state).
I think there is some solution here that should be explored.
Thanks for sharing this concern, which is very reasonable.
One of the things that motivated us to run this contest was the desire to have a lot of interesting new content on the Forum — we want people checking in regularly to see new stories, commenting on submissions, and digging through the archives even after the contest is over.
If we used a standard “read submissions in private, publish the best” model, we’d be missing out on that, even if we still achieved our other goal of “find a few really top-notch things to share”.
But I do acknowledge that this presents authors with a conundrum if they want to publish stories elsewhere. Would the following arrangement be fine?
Publish your entry on the Forum
If you win, you leave the post up
If you don’t win, you move the post back to a draft (where Google won’t find it)
This seems like it opens up the chance to submit the story elsewhere again (since no one will be able to read it on the Forum anymore). And if it doesn’t end up getting published elsewhere, you can just go back to your draft post and hit “publish”.
Would this work, or do you think something ever having been published, even if it disappeared again, would make it impossible to submit to some/many places?
I completely understand your goal, which is very reasonable!
But most publishers consider ‘was printed in an obscure magazine that sold ten copies and is now a collector’s item, has never been printed since’ to be ‘printed’. Some people buying reprints are only interested in that kind of obscure thing, but even if it is ‘already published obscurely’, I still think you won’t get much for the reprint.
So although that’s an understandable try at a solution, I don’t think it succeeds.
Thanks for the further feedback. I’ll think more on whether we should open some kind of private submission option, and we may end up doing so. It would be really sad if authors were forced to sacrifice future opportunities in order to participate.
Welcome! I’m happy to help.
If you’re looking for a compromise solution, stories submitted to the Grantville Gazette Universe Annex (Baen’s magazine) are submitted by being posted on a password-protected forum (Baen’s Bar) that anyone can get an account for, where readers can critique them, then a subset of those are purchased and professionally published in the magazine. Posting a story on Baen’s Bar is generally (some people say explicitly, and it appears to be the consensus unless I’m making a horrible mistake) not considered publication, and stories posted there don’t appear in Google searches.
You’d want to do more research into this, but if you’re interested, it might provide you a base to work off of.
(Their submission rules; warning, mildly arcane: https://grantvillegazette.com/universe-annex-submissions/ )
I second interest in a private submission / private forum option! I intend to submit my entry to a few places soon, but that won’t be possible if it’s “published” by submitting it here. If there isn’t a private option I probably won’t submit here.
Here’s our new private submission form!
I’ve just submitted two stories! Hopefully they’ve landed properly. Thanks for the form!
Forgot to say thanks, just used it!
I think this is a really well intentioned and thoughtful reply.
However, hiding publication on an internet forum seems technically dubious (archiving and forum scraping seems common).
Also, this wasn’t the intention, but it does seem to be the same as, well, fraud. My guess is that authors are required to state their story isn’t published (and removing it after the fact doesn’t alter this state).
I think there is some solution here that should be explored.