I listened to this post through the Non-Linear Library yesterday, thanks for writing this. I think this post misses several things - (sorry if you already addressed some of these and I missed it).
1. Most people struggle to “think big” (related: Scope Insensitivity). It is hard and unintuitive to fathom that Charity X could be three orders of magnitude more effective than Charity Y.
2. Most people want practical certainty. Cultivated meat could be huge for the world. But it is still very uncertain whether this could be affordable in the foreseeable future. And no one guarantees that the industry of cultivated meat would still exist in ten years.
Due to these - Many people’s default image of charity is still volunteering in a soup kitchen (This is partly because many famous celebrities, including athletes, donate their money to provide warm meals in a certain community or toys for children). And many people’s default image of doing good but not in a charity perspective is community oriented and very practical straightforward jobs like becoming a firefighter or a school teacher. These are practical, certain to be good, could never backfire, and the smile of the recipient of the soup is guaranteed and not far away in time.
3. This point is extremely important in my eyes—many people do not believe they are capable of “doing something big”. Even if someone is convinced for example that being a cultivated meat scientist is effective, he might not believe in himself that he has the capabilities to become one.
4. Regarding your correct point that meaning can bring more happiness than a yacht. I think that many people do in fact realize this more and more (even though many still do not) - but most students don’t think about yachts and mansions, as they can’t even afford the insurance for the yacht they do not have. They just want to get a job that could enable them to afford the down payment for an apartment later down the road. Most people want some financial security and stability before wanting to save the world. It is like convincing someone to donate 10% of his income to charity—but he doesn’t even have an income he could donate from.
5. Which brings me to this point. Many people view doing good as a sacrifice—school teachers make less money than programmers. What I think they don’t necessarily realize is that being a cultivated meat scientist or AI researcher or several other EA careers are actually not necessarily a financial sacrifice at all, and even if they are, they could still afford the down payment for the apartment they dream of. We could really emphasize this point.
Hi Dvir, thank you for sharing your thoughts and raising some interesting points. I appreciate the insights and would like to address each of them in the context of my original post and previous responses.
Your first point about scope insensitivity and the difficulty for people to “think big” is well-taken. This ties in nicely with your third point about many people not believing they are capable of “doing something big.” I completely agree that these challenges exist, which is why I believe it is important to help people gain this confidence in themselves. As expressed previously, I am quite skeptical to what extent the existing introduction track actually enables people to build this. Surely, people can learn about the fact that we live in a very important time and that each of us can make a big impact, but I think that real belief in yourself and ambitiousness stems from seeing evidence of the things you have already accomplished. It also comes from a deep understanding of who you are, where you come from, and what you are about. This is what I try to address with the PLP Track partially. The point you bring up is very important in my eyes, and I think one of the most influential factors in people considering high-impact opportunities.
I appreciate your point about the importance of financial security and stability in people’s lives. As you rightly pointed out (I think), many people need to have their basic needs met before they can focus on higher-level goals, such as making a positive impact in the world. This highlights the importance of presenting EA as not only a path to do good but also as a means to achieve personal fulfillment and security. Emphasizing the variety of careers and opportunities within the EA community that can provide both financial stability and the chance to make a difference could be a powerful motivator for many individuals.
This leads me to my last point. The perception of doing good as a sacrifice is indeed a challenge that needs to be addressed. I think that reframing EA as a fulfilling and purpose-driven pursuit that can be integrated into one’s life without requiring a sacrifice of everything can make the ideas of Effective Altruism more appealing and accessible to a wider audience. I am not entirely sure, though, to what extent we want this, as I do think that the majority of impact stems from a very small fraction of people. On the other hand, you could flip the argument again and argue that due to the young age of students at university, there is not an insignificant chance that people could become highly engaged if approached from a different angle.
In light of your points, I wonder if you have any suggestions on how EA university groups could better communicate the potential personal benefits and opportunities for personal growth that come with engaging in Effective Altruism? Do you have any ideas on how we can better address the concerns and challenges you’ve raised to create a more inclusive and empowering community for individuals at different stages of their lives?
Thank you for sharing your insights and prompting further discussion on this topic!
I listened to this post through the Non-Linear Library yesterday, thanks for writing this.
I think this post misses several things - (sorry if you already addressed some of these and I missed it).
1. Most people struggle to “think big” (related: Scope Insensitivity). It is hard and unintuitive to fathom that Charity X could be three orders of magnitude more effective than Charity Y.
2. Most people want practical certainty. Cultivated meat could be huge for the world. But it is still very uncertain whether this could be affordable in the foreseeable future. And no one guarantees that the industry of cultivated meat would still exist in ten years.
Due to these -
Many people’s default image of charity is still volunteering in a soup kitchen (This is partly because many famous celebrities, including athletes, donate their money to provide warm meals in a certain community or toys for children). And many people’s default image of doing good but not in a charity perspective is community oriented and very practical straightforward jobs like becoming a firefighter or a school teacher.
These are practical, certain to be good, could never backfire, and the smile of the recipient of the soup is guaranteed and not far away in time.
3. This point is extremely important in my eyes—many people do not believe they are capable of “doing something big”. Even if someone is convinced for example that being a cultivated meat scientist is effective, he might not believe in himself that he has the capabilities to become one.
4. Regarding your correct point that meaning can bring more happiness than a yacht. I think that many people do in fact realize this more and more (even though many still do not) - but most students don’t think about yachts and mansions, as they can’t even afford the insurance for the yacht they do not have. They just want to get a job that could enable them to afford the down payment for an apartment later down the road. Most people want some financial security and stability before wanting to save the world. It is like convincing someone to donate 10% of his income to charity—but he doesn’t even have an income he could donate from.
5. Which brings me to this point. Many people view doing good as a sacrifice—school teachers make less money than programmers. What I think they don’t necessarily realize is that being a cultivated meat scientist or AI researcher or several other EA careers are actually not necessarily a financial sacrifice at all, and even if they are, they could still afford the down payment for the apartment they dream of. We could really emphasize this point.
Hi Dvir, thank you for sharing your thoughts and raising some interesting points. I appreciate the insights and would like to address each of them in the context of my original post and previous responses.
Your first point about scope insensitivity and the difficulty for people to “think big” is well-taken. This ties in nicely with your third point about many people not believing they are capable of “doing something big.” I completely agree that these challenges exist, which is why I believe it is important to help people gain this confidence in themselves. As expressed previously, I am quite skeptical to what extent the existing introduction track actually enables people to build this. Surely, people can learn about the fact that we live in a very important time and that each of us can make a big impact, but I think that real belief in yourself and ambitiousness stems from seeing evidence of the things you have already accomplished. It also comes from a deep understanding of who you are, where you come from, and what you are about. This is what I try to address with the PLP Track partially. The point you bring up is very important in my eyes, and I think one of the most influential factors in people considering high-impact opportunities.
I appreciate your point about the importance of financial security and stability in people’s lives. As you rightly pointed out (I think), many people need to have their basic needs met before they can focus on higher-level goals, such as making a positive impact in the world. This highlights the importance of presenting EA as not only a path to do good but also as a means to achieve personal fulfillment and security. Emphasizing the variety of careers and opportunities within the EA community that can provide both financial stability and the chance to make a difference could be a powerful motivator for many individuals.
This leads me to my last point. The perception of doing good as a sacrifice is indeed a challenge that needs to be addressed. I think that reframing EA as a fulfilling and purpose-driven pursuit that can be integrated into one’s life without requiring a sacrifice of everything can make the ideas of Effective Altruism more appealing and accessible to a wider audience. I am not entirely sure, though, to what extent we want this, as I do think that the majority of impact stems from a very small fraction of people. On the other hand, you could flip the argument again and argue that due to the young age of students at university, there is not an insignificant chance that people could become highly engaged if approached from a different angle.
In light of your points, I wonder if you have any suggestions on how EA university groups could better communicate the potential personal benefits and opportunities for personal growth that come with engaging in Effective Altruism? Do you have any ideas on how we can better address the concerns and challenges you’ve raised to create a more inclusive and empowering community for individuals at different stages of their lives?
Thank you for sharing your insights and prompting further discussion on this topic!