Thank you for a good post. I think this is a relevant question, and I agree with Stefan that it would be good with more data on this. Fwiw, in Sweden, my 50% confidence interval of the share of highly-engaged longtermists under 25 doing movement-building is 20-35%. However, I don’t think I am as concerned as you seem to be with that number. A couple of thoughts:
I think the answer to how young longtermist who should be doing community building is very dependent on the counterfactual—what they would be doing otherwise. And my experience as a community builder in Sweden trying to help young longtermsist is that there aren’t that many better opportunities out there right now. (Note that this might be very different in other contexts.)
I would be super keen on seeing more opportunities for young longtermists to engage in EA!
Going off that, I think community building can be a very good place to get a better understanding of all the different career options and start exploring some, before doing object-level work to assess fit/contribute in another domain. And I think I would be more concerned with young EAs and longtermists focusing in on one path very early on, if they don’t have a very particular/obvious personal fit or preference. I know of at least a couple of people who after doing community building have come to update their plans in a way I deem positive and unlikely to have happened otherwise.
On a related but more speculative note I think community building can be a good place to build a better sense of cause agnosticism and connections to people in different cause areas, which I think is beneficial for the EA and longtermist movement over the long run.
Pure speculation on my part but I think community building can be an especially pleasant way to get heavily involved and build social connections to other EAs and longtermists early on, thus making it more likely to keep people engaged over the long run.
Note that I might be biased as I am a community builder myself and think community building is one of the most impactful things many could do, not only young people. Somewhat relevant to this question, this is actually something I have been concerned about when giving advice to students. Obviously, I try to be objective, but it is hard to shy away from the fact that it will always be top of mind for me and just something I am much more knowledgeable about, making it more likely that I will bring it up.
Hi, Vilhelm, thanks for these thoughts! Some quick responses to just a few points:
Fwiw, in Sweden, my 50% confidence interval of the share of highly-engaged longtermists under 25 doing movement-building is 20-35%. However, I don’t think I am as concerned as you seem to be with that number.
20-35% isn’t all that concerning to me. I’d be more concerned if it were in the ballpark of 40% or more. That said, even 20-35% does feel a bit high to me if we’re talking about college graduates working full-time on community-building (a higher percentage might make sense if we’re counting college students who are just spending a fraction of their time on community-building).
my experience as a community builder in Sweden trying to help young longtermsist is that there aren’t that many better opportunities out there right now. (Note that this might be very different in other contexts.)
Agreed that the counterfactual may be significantly worse for those based in Sweden (or most other countries besides the US and UK) who are unwilling to move to EA hubs. I should have flagged that I’m writing this as someone based in the US where I see lots of alternatives to community building. With that said, it’s not totally clear to me which direction this points in: maybe a lack of opportunities to do object-level work in Sweden suggests the need for more people to go out and create such opportunities, rather than doing further community-building.
Data suggest people leave their community building roles rather quickly, indicating that people do pivot when finding a better fit
Yeah this matches my experience—I see a lot of young EAs doing community building for a year or two post-grad and then moving on to object-level work. This seems great when it’s a case of someone thinking community-building is their highest-upside option, testing their fit, and then moving on (presumably because it hasn’t gone super well). I worry, though, that in some cases folks do not even view community-building as a career path they’re committed to, and instead fall into community-building because it’s the “path of least resistance.”
To be clear, I’m incredibly grateful to community builders like you, and don’t intend to devalue the work you do—I genuinely think community-building is one of the most impactful career paths, and a significant fraction of EAs should pursue it (particularly those who—like you, it sounds like—have great personal fit for the work and see it their highest-upside long-term career path).
Hey!
Thank you for a good post. I think this is a relevant question, and I agree with Stefan that it would be good with more data on this. Fwiw, in Sweden, my 50% confidence interval of the share of highly-engaged longtermists under 25 doing movement-building is 20-35%. However, I don’t think I am as concerned as you seem to be with that number. A couple of thoughts:
I think the answer to how young longtermist who should be doing community building is very dependent on the counterfactual—what they would be doing otherwise. And my experience as a community builder in Sweden trying to help young longtermsist is that there aren’t that many better opportunities out there right now. (Note that this might be very different in other contexts.)
I would be super keen on seeing more opportunities for young longtermists to engage in EA!
Going off that, I think community building can be a very good place to get a better understanding of all the different career options and start exploring some, before doing object-level work to assess fit/contribute in another domain. And I think I would be more concerned with young EAs and longtermists focusing in on one path very early on, if they don’t have a very particular/obvious personal fit or preference. I know of at least a couple of people who after doing community building have come to update their plans in a way I deem positive and unlikely to have happened otherwise.
On a related but more speculative note I think community building can be a good place to build a better sense of cause agnosticism and connections to people in different cause areas, which I think is beneficial for the EA and longtermist movement over the long run.
Data suggest people leave their community building roles rather quickly, indicating that people do pivot when finding a better fit (see more: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ewCdRr2ZBkrwXMaoX/making-community-building-a-more-attractive-career-path-1)
Pure speculation on my part but I think community building can be an especially pleasant way to get heavily involved and build social connections to other EAs and longtermists early on, thus making it more likely to keep people engaged over the long run.
Note that I might be biased as I am a community builder myself and think community building is one of the most impactful things many could do, not only young people. Somewhat relevant to this question, this is actually something I have been concerned about when giving advice to students. Obviously, I try to be objective, but it is hard to shy away from the fact that it will always be top of mind for me and just something I am much more knowledgeable about, making it more likely that I will bring it up.
Hi, Vilhelm, thanks for these thoughts! Some quick responses to just a few points:
20-35% isn’t all that concerning to me. I’d be more concerned if it were in the ballpark of 40% or more. That said, even 20-35% does feel a bit high to me if we’re talking about college graduates working full-time on community-building (a higher percentage might make sense if we’re counting college students who are just spending a fraction of their time on community-building).
Agreed that the counterfactual may be significantly worse for those based in Sweden (or most other countries besides the US and UK) who are unwilling to move to EA hubs. I should have flagged that I’m writing this as someone based in the US where I see lots of alternatives to community building. With that said, it’s not totally clear to me which direction this points in: maybe a lack of opportunities to do object-level work in Sweden suggests the need for more people to go out and create such opportunities, rather than doing further community-building.
Yeah this matches my experience—I see a lot of young EAs doing community building for a year or two post-grad and then moving on to object-level work. This seems great when it’s a case of someone thinking community-building is their highest-upside option, testing their fit, and then moving on (presumably because it hasn’t gone super well). I worry, though, that in some cases folks do not even view community-building as a career path they’re committed to, and instead fall into community-building because it’s the “path of least resistance.”
To be clear, I’m incredibly grateful to community builders like you, and don’t intend to devalue the work you do—I genuinely think community-building is one of the most impactful career paths, and a significant fraction of EAs should pursue it (particularly those who—like you, it sounds like—have great personal fit for the work and see it their highest-upside long-term career path).