> This is primarily the instrumental value of your enjoyment, right? Otherwise, you should compare your going vegan directly to the suffering of animals by not going vegan
I think youâre drawing the line in an unfair place between instrumental and inherent value. Most EAs I know are not so morally demanding on themselves as to have no self-interest. If someone is well-off in a non-EA job and donates 40% of their income to GiveWell or x-risk charities, theyâre a fairly dedicated EA. But donating âonlyâ 40% still implies a >10:1 income disparity between oneself and the global poor, and thus that one values oneâs own enjoyment >50x more than that of an arbitrary human. I think the norm of being less than maximally demanding is beneficial to the EA community and protects against unproductive asceticism. So self-interest that looks inherent can actually be instrumental.
I think the norm of being less than maximally demanding is beneficial to the EA community and protects against unproductive asceticism.
I agree with this.
I donât think the majority of EAs value our own âenjoyment >50x more than that of an arbitrary humanâ after reflection. I think most of us actually have impartial views, but donât think it would be sustainable/âproductive or canât find the willpower or motivation to be so ascetic.
So self-interest that looks inherent can actually be instrumental.
For discussions among engaged EAs, I think we should be clear about whatâs going on here. Maybe for the donation pledges, we can use this kind of phrasing, although we wouldnât be representing our own views accurately. Thereâs a lot of discussion about mental health, burnout and taking care of yourself in the EA community which serves this purpose for us.
Also, the same kind of argument could be used for being mean to people (anonymously) if you enjoyed it, because their harm seems insignificant compared to saving a year of human life, and youâd be willing to pay a bit to be mean every now and then.
You might respond that you can find things youâd enjoy just as much as being mean, and you should do those instead. I feel the same about animal products vs vegan meals. They donât have to be similar substitutes, and this is likely to disappoint many. I might be unusually indifferent between foods, though, which has made being vegan pretty easy for me, and Jeff eats a lot of vegan food, and still thinks the difference is important enough.
> This is primarily the instrumental value of your enjoyment, right? Otherwise, you should compare your going vegan directly to the suffering of animals by not going vegan
I think youâre drawing the line in an unfair place between instrumental and inherent value. Most EAs I know are not so morally demanding on themselves as to have no self-interest. If someone is well-off in a non-EA job and donates 40% of their income to GiveWell or x-risk charities, theyâre a fairly dedicated EA. But donating âonlyâ 40% still implies a >10:1 income disparity between oneself and the global poor, and thus that one values oneâs own enjoyment >50x more than that of an arbitrary human. I think the norm of being less than maximally demanding is beneficial to the EA community and protects against unproductive asceticism. So self-interest that looks inherent can actually be instrumental.
I agree with this.
I donât think the majority of EAs value our own âenjoyment >50x more than that of an arbitrary humanâ after reflection. I think most of us actually have impartial views, but donât think it would be sustainable/âproductive or canât find the willpower or motivation to be so ascetic.
For discussions among engaged EAs, I think we should be clear about whatâs going on here. Maybe for the donation pledges, we can use this kind of phrasing, although we wouldnât be representing our own views accurately. Thereâs a lot of discussion about mental health, burnout and taking care of yourself in the EA community which serves this purpose for us.
Also, the same kind of argument could be used for being mean to people (anonymously) if you enjoyed it, because their harm seems insignificant compared to saving a year of human life, and youâd be willing to pay a bit to be mean every now and then.
You might respond that you can find things youâd enjoy just as much as being mean, and you should do those instead. I feel the same about animal products vs vegan meals. They donât have to be similar substitutes, and this is likely to disappoint many. I might be unusually indifferent between foods, though, which has made being vegan pretty easy for me, and Jeff eats a lot of vegan food, and still thinks the difference is important enough.