Thanks for writing this Kat! While I donât agree with everything, the core argument (cluelessness about nutritional science means ancestral diets are a strong prior) was convincing to me.
I wanted to note how I updated my diet from this and additional ~3 hours of research: - 100g/âweek of sardines: (due to reasons here) - 150g/âweek of mussels: I agree with the post that they are unlikely to be sentient - 2 eggs/âweek: My guess is that EU welfare level 0 (organic) actually means chickens possibly have a net-positive life. Lmk if you know of welfare concerns with organic eggs in the EU! - Once per month cow liver: In order to cover the âred-meatâ food group, Iâm adding some cow meat as it seems to cause the lowest suffering of commonly available animals per kg. Why liver and not normal beef? Firstly, it has higher nutrient density, thus you need less of it. Secondly, organs were regularly eaten by ancestors, thus the ancestral prior is strong. Thirdly, livers are a byproduct of normal meat production and organ meat is often discarded due to low demand. Thus, buying livers likely doesnât increase demand for cows much.
I was already occasionally eating cheese beforehand; otherwise, yoghurt/âkefir might also look good.
Iâm happy to be convinced of changing this based on new evidence!
Bird flu meaning hens can still be kept indoors for infection control.
Welfare issues inherent to breeds that lay many more eggs than âwildâ chickens do.
Not to say these necessarily render a chickenâs life net-negative (it depends on your philosophy of animal lives worth living), and organic is much better than even free-range, so if youâre going to eat eggs buy organic (if youâre at 2 a week the price increase shouldnât bother you).
Thanks a lot! These seem like very significant issues that updated me to put only eat 2 eggs/âmonth instead of per week. I was surprised to read that chicken (even organic ones) can be kept inside for 5-6 months per year. Also, reading about the welfare issues of chicken bread for egg laying seems pretty bad (eg weaker bonestructure, immune system and social behavior).
Thanks for the pointer Henry! It motivated me to look into culling more and I just wanted to share some EU-specific facts I found:
A hen produces ~350 eggs, so consuming one egg is ~1/â350th of culling a male chicken. 28% of chicken in Europe have in-OVO sexing, with Germany having ~80%. The numbers are lower for organic eggs because for some reasons in-ovo sexing was forbidden for organic eggs until this year (stupid much???).
Overall, I find it difficult to weigh male-chicken-culling morally. Do they have strong conscious experience at that time? How much suffering is there involved in their deaths?
Thanks for writing this Kat! While I donât agree with everything, the core argument (cluelessness about nutritional science means ancestral diets are a strong prior) was convincing to me.
I wanted to note how I updated my diet from this and additional ~3 hours of research:
- 100g/âweek of sardines: (due to reasons here)
- 150g/âweek of mussels: I agree with the post that they are unlikely to be sentient
- 2 eggs/âweek: My guess is that EU welfare level 0 (organic) actually means chickens possibly have a net-positive life. Lmk if you know of welfare concerns with organic eggs in the EU!
- Once per month cow liver: In order to cover the âred-meatâ food group, Iâm adding some cow meat as it seems to cause the lowest suffering of commonly available animals per kg. Why liver and not normal beef? Firstly, it has higher nutrient density, thus you need less of it. Secondly, organs were regularly eaten by ancestors, thus the ancestral prior is strong. Thirdly, livers are a byproduct of normal meat production and organ meat is often discarded due to low demand. Thus, buying livers likely doesnât increase demand for cows much.
I was already occasionally eating cheese beforehand; otherwise, yoghurt/âkefir might also look good.
Iâm happy to be convinced of changing this based on new evidence!
I believe the concerns with organic eggs are:
Bird flu meaning hens can still be kept indoors for infection control.
Welfare issues inherent to breeds that lay many more eggs than âwildâ chickens do.
Not to say these necessarily render a chickenâs life net-negative (it depends on your philosophy of animal lives worth living), and organic is much better than even free-range, so if youâre going to eat eggs buy organic (if youâre at 2 a week the price increase shouldnât bother you).
Thanks a lot! These seem like very significant issues that updated me to put only eat 2 eggs/âmonth instead of per week. I was surprised to read that chicken (even organic ones) can be kept inside for 5-6 months per year. Also, reading about the welfare issues of chicken bread for egg laying seems pretty bad (eg weaker bonestructure, immune system and social behavior).
Presumably if the eggs arenât sexed in ovo then the male chicks are getting ground up/âgassed?
Thanks for the pointer Henry! It motivated me to look into culling more and I just wanted to share some EU-specific facts I found:
A hen produces ~350 eggs, so consuming one egg is ~1/â350th of culling a male chicken. 28% of chicken in Europe have in-OVO sexing, with Germany having ~80%. The numbers are lower for organic eggs because for some reasons in-ovo sexing was forbidden for organic eggs until this year (stupid much???).
Overall, I find it difficult to weigh male-chicken-culling morally. Do they have strong conscious experience at that time? How much suffering is there involved in their deaths?