I wonder if this is that we’re looking at the same numbers and seeing them differently, or whether we think the numbers are different?
If I think of the ten most well known EAs (not sharing the list because I don’t want to be ranking people), 5 are parents. Looking through Wikipedia:People_associated_with_effective_altruism I count 32 people, of which I recognize 8 as parents (and others may be). Of the top 50 posters by karma I recognize (a mostly different) [EDIT: nine] as parents, but there are a lot I don’t know the parental status of.
EA Forum, EA Global meetings, 80k Hours podcasts, etc seem to be relatively childless
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘childless’ here? I agree there aren’t many children participating in these spaces, but that’s also normal in the broader world. Do you mean that we don’t talk about children much? That it’s common for people to assume the audience doesn’t have kids?
AI advocates brushing aside all concerns about ‘technological unemployment’
I see people digging into this and comparing it to other risks, not brushing it aside. For example, here’s Holden (a parent!) making the case that by the time you get much technological unemployment you probably have much larger disruptions.
Hi Jeff—thanks for these numbers; you probably know the EA community better than I do, and have been actively engaged as an ‘EA parent’ longer than I have.
I acknowledge that a significant proportion of EAs have kids (e.g. at least 5⁄10 top 10 well-known EAs, 8⁄32 top wiki EA-associated people, 8⁄50 top EA Forum karma people). But, worldwide, it looks like about 70-80% of mature adults have kids at some point, so EAs might be on the lower end of having kids, and/or skew younger.
But, when I referred to the EA culture as seeming ‘relatively childless’, I was thinking more in terms of the culture, norms, and perspectives that shape EA values and messaging—not the relative lack of kids appearing on EA podcasts or at EA events.
I don’t expect parents in EA to talk about their kids a lot—which becomes very tedious to non-parents. Rather, I’m concerned that having kids in EA might be seen as a decision that requires some special ethical justification or career rationale or impact assessment, rather than as a normal thing that human creatures do after they sexually mature, find mates, and settle down.
Sorry if my tone came across as tendentious; it seems like we probably agree about most of this!
I wonder if this is that we’re looking at the same numbers and seeing them differently, or whether we think the numbers are different?
If I think of the ten most well known EAs (not sharing the list because I don’t want to be ranking people), 5 are parents. Looking through Wikipedia:People_associated_with_effective_altruism I count 32 people, of which I recognize 8 as parents (and others may be). Of the top 50 posters by karma I recognize (a mostly different) [EDIT: nine] as parents, but there are a lot I don’t know the parental status of.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘childless’ here? I agree there aren’t many children participating in these spaces, but that’s also normal in the broader world. Do you mean that we don’t talk about children much? That it’s common for people to assume the audience doesn’t have kids?
I see people digging into this and comparing it to other risks, not brushing it aside. For example, here’s Holden (a parent!) making the case that by the time you get much technological unemployment you probably have much larger disruptions.
Hi Jeff—thanks for these numbers; you probably know the EA community better than I do, and have been actively engaged as an ‘EA parent’ longer than I have.
I acknowledge that a significant proportion of EAs have kids (e.g. at least 5⁄10 top 10 well-known EAs, 8⁄32 top wiki EA-associated people, 8⁄50 top EA Forum karma people). But, worldwide, it looks like about 70-80% of mature adults have kids at some point, so EAs might be on the lower end of having kids, and/or skew younger.
But, when I referred to the EA culture as seeming ‘relatively childless’, I was thinking more in terms of the culture, norms, and perspectives that shape EA values and messaging—not the relative lack of kids appearing on EA podcasts or at EA events.
I don’t expect parents in EA to talk about their kids a lot—which becomes very tedious to non-parents. Rather, I’m concerned that having kids in EA might be seen as a decision that requires some special ethical justification or career rationale or impact assessment, rather than as a normal thing that human creatures do after they sexually mature, find mates, and settle down.
Sorry if my tone came across as tendentious; it seems like we probably agree about most of this!