Pronatalist.org is Collins’ organization that received funding from the SFF. I can see how that was unclear, apologies.
expressed a desire to become a dominant faction in the EA space to further their aims, I would make a similar post about this, and I don’t think I should be expected to engage with debunking flat-earth viewpoints before making this post. It sounds like you disagree?
I think the crux here is that everyone involved thinks it’s obvious flat-earthers are wrong and we’re working from the shared (implicit) assumption.
I think that’s not the case here (I don’t even know what pro-natalism specifically claims or involves other than “more babies is good, pushing society in that direction is good”, and I assume there’s a huge range of thinking within that, some more libertarian, some more statist, some more racist, some more futurist, etc), and so I don’t want to base a discussion on that as a shared assumption, and don’t want to port in that assumption without addressing it.
Maybe you think it is equally obvious and that we should all think so, and if EA started debating flat earth you’d be (correctly) very concerned, some things are just obvious, but I’ve never figured out how to have a good conversation around “this is so obvious we shouldn’t have a conversation about it” even though I think that’s sometimes a reasonable point to make.
In my read, this post is not about whether having children (literal ‘pro’ ‘natalism’) is correct or not. I think having a debate about that is great, and I’m inclined towards the ‘yes’ side.
It’s about pointing to signs suggesting the existence of power-seeking faction within EA, that (by their own admission) is attempting to coopt the movement for their own aims.
(Why the hedging in the previous paragraph: stating that your faction is “now 100X more likely to become a real, dominant faction” is not quite stating your intention to make it dominate, it just suggests it.)
I think coopting a broad altruism movement for particular people’s pet causes (or selfish aims) is bad. There is a very real possibility that EA will be coopted by power-seekers and become another club for career-conscious people who want to get ahead. I support good attempts to prevent that.
This pointing is asymmetrical with respect to the question of whether the purported ‘faction’ in question is in fact a faction, and is in fact trying to coopt the movement.
Seconding JP’s point that I appreciate you being clear about your goals. Not sure what organization on that list is a flat earth one?
Thanks!
Pronatalist.org is Collins’ organization that received funding from the SFF. I can see how that was unclear, apologies.
Interested in your view here!
I think the crux here is that everyone involved thinks it’s obvious flat-earthers are wrong and we’re working from the shared (implicit) assumption.
I think that’s not the case here (I don’t even know what pro-natalism specifically claims or involves other than “more babies is good, pushing society in that direction is good”, and I assume there’s a huge range of thinking within that, some more libertarian, some more statist, some more racist, some more futurist, etc), and so I don’t want to base a discussion on that as a shared assumption, and don’t want to port in that assumption without addressing it.
Maybe you think it is equally obvious and that we should all think so, and if EA started debating flat earth you’d be (correctly) very concerned, some things are just obvious, but I’ve never figured out how to have a good conversation around “this is so obvious we shouldn’t have a conversation about it” even though I think that’s sometimes a reasonable point to make.
In my read, this post is not about whether having children (literal ‘pro’ ‘natalism’) is correct or not. I think having a debate about that is great, and I’m inclined towards the ‘yes’ side.
It’s about pointing to signs suggesting the existence of power-seeking faction within EA, that (by their own admission) is attempting to coopt the movement for their own aims.
(Why the hedging in the previous paragraph: stating that your faction is “now 100X more likely to become a real, dominant faction” is not quite stating your intention to make it dominate, it just suggests it.)
I think coopting a broad altruism movement for particular people’s pet causes (or selfish aims) is bad. There is a very real possibility that EA will be coopted by power-seekers and become another club for career-conscious people who want to get ahead. I support good attempts to prevent that.
This pointing is asymmetrical with respect to the question of whether the purported ‘faction’ in question is in fact a faction, and is in fact trying to coopt the movement.