I’d add that I think 80K has done an awful lot to communicate “EA isn’t just about earning-to-give” over the years. At some point it surely has to be the case that they’ve done enough. This is part of why I want to distinguish the question “did we play a causal role here?” from questions like “did we foreseeably screw up?” and “should we do things differently going forward?”.
The complaints here seem to be partly about HOW EtG is promoted, rather than how MUCH. Though I am mildly skeptical that people in fact did not warn against doing harm to make money while promoting EtG, and much more skeptical that SBF would have listened if they had done this more.
Yeah, I had 80k in mind when I thought about EAs who did distance themselves from harms. They’ve had this article up for ages (I remember reading it early in my EA journey). I think a good SBF/EtG postmortem would try to establish which orgs didn’t do as well at this, and what the counterfactuals really were, and I think it may well conclude there wasn’t much else EA-promoting orgs could’ve done. (Although, if I had to put money on it I’d say explicit condemnations could’ve been predictable).
At some point it surely has to be the case that they’ve done enough.
This doesn’t seem true? It makes perfect sense for advocacy groups to continue advocating their position, since a lot of the point is to reach people for whom the message is new. 80k is (or at least was) all about how to use your career for good, I would expect them to always be talking about earning to give as an option.
I’d add that I think 80K has done an awful lot to communicate “EA isn’t just about earning-to-give” over the years. At some point it surely has to be the case that they’ve done enough. This is part of why I want to distinguish the question “did we play a causal role here?” from questions like “did we foreseeably screw up?” and “should we do things differently going forward?”.
The complaints here seem to be partly about HOW EtG is promoted, rather than how MUCH. Though I am mildly skeptical that people in fact did not warn against doing harm to make money while promoting EtG, and much more skeptical that SBF would have listened if they had done this more.
Yeah, I had 80k in mind when I thought about EAs who did distance themselves from harms. They’ve had this article up for ages (I remember reading it early in my EA journey). I think a good SBF/EtG postmortem would try to establish which orgs didn’t do as well at this, and what the counterfactuals really were, and I think it may well conclude there wasn’t much else EA-promoting orgs could’ve done. (Although, if I had to put money on it I’d say explicit condemnations could’ve been predictable).
This doesn’t seem true? It makes perfect sense for advocacy groups to continue advocating their position, since a lot of the point is to reach people for whom the message is new. 80k is (or at least was) all about how to use your career for good, I would expect them to always be talking about earning to give as an option.
I mean “done enough” in the sense that 80K is at fault for falling short, not in the sense that they should necessarily stop sharing that message.