Yeah, when I was younger I successfully represented ~100 of my colleagues in an informal pay dispute at a software company. It’s really, really hard to prove retaliation, but I found myself on the receiving end of a few very intimidating meetings with HR over trivial internal comments (where, when other people had made similar comments, they had not received this treatment). I was also told that there wasn’t enough budget to promote me or even give me ‘exceeds expectations’ in my performance reviews, when colleagues in other teams had no issue. Even if this wasn’t retaliation, speaking out gave me a paranoia that lasted the remainder of my time there and led me to hold my tongue in the future.
I’m the sort of person that tries to stick up for people when I see them getting fucked over, and perhaps the average EA also has this strength of will. But I agree with Yanni that whether this ‘infiltration’ approach works depends on this being one of your primary goals in joining the company, and a personality with very strong will & resilience. I don’t think that it’s a nice side-effect or valuable bonus in someone’s personal calculation to join such a firm.
Another thought—I think it is possible that a bunch of EAs have just never worked with really shitty people before? Like, maybe it is taken for granted that everyone is just kinda nice and not actively trying to fuck you over?
I do wonder if the naïveté that the OpenAI board coup was approached with is a result of this. It did not sound like something organised by people who were used to operating in a highly political, cut-throat environment, and they seemed surprised when it turned out that they were.
Yeah, when I was younger I successfully represented ~100 of my colleagues in an informal pay dispute at a software company. It’s really, really hard to prove retaliation, but I found myself on the receiving end of a few very intimidating meetings with HR over trivial internal comments (where, when other people had made similar comments, they had not received this treatment). I was also told that there wasn’t enough budget to promote me or even give me ‘exceeds expectations’ in my performance reviews, when colleagues in other teams had no issue. Even if this wasn’t retaliation, speaking out gave me a paranoia that lasted the remainder of my time there and led me to hold my tongue in the future.
I’m the sort of person that tries to stick up for people when I see them getting fucked over, and perhaps the average EA also has this strength of will. But I agree with Yanni that whether this ‘infiltration’ approach works depends on this being one of your primary goals in joining the company, and a personality with very strong will & resilience. I don’t think that it’s a nice side-effect or valuable bonus in someone’s personal calculation to join such a firm.
I’m sorry to hear you experienced that man, it sounds very familiar :(
Going through what I did represents the proudest moment of my life, but I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Maybe someone from animal welfare with experience doing “inside” investigations could provide useful (albeit extreme) insight into this problem?
Another thought—I think it is possible that a bunch of EAs have just never worked with really shitty people before? Like, maybe it is taken for granted that everyone is just kinda nice and not actively trying to fuck you over?
I do wonder if the naïveté that the OpenAI board coup was approached with is a result of this. It did not sound like something organised by people who were used to operating in a highly political, cut-throat environment, and they seemed surprised when it turned out that they were.