What are your thoughts on pursuing a PhD compared to 3-4 more years of work experience? How much career capital is a formal PhD degree actually worth?
This answer might depend a lot on the context, so:
I have a degree in pure mathematics and that is also where I would potentially pursue a PhD. I have high grades, but not from a top university.
I am living in Germany and am willing, but not eager, to move to another country in order to maximise my impact.
I am considering Earning to Give as my most impactful option (though I am far from certain yet). If I do not pursue a PhD, my next step would most likely be trying to asses my fit for quantitative trading: https://80000hours.org/career-reviews/quantitative-trading/ (To make matters more complicated, it is mentioned that you can enter the field with graduate degrees, but some roles do require a PhD. So if you are knowledgeable in this area, some advice would be especially welcome.)
I have neither a concrete plan nor a scholarship for my potential PhD (yet) and would change my university anyways. So it might also be a consideration to try some jobs and internships and pursue a PhD later on if worthwhile. However I am under the impression that returning into academia is more difficult than staying there.
Rohin Shah talks a little about PhDs here in relation to AI safety work
Adam Gleave makes a positive case here for AI safety
[Caveat: having dropped out of a PhD myself, I might be biased against doing one.] I think our piece on doing PhDs mostly holds up, but I’d make a few updates away from doing one:
AI things might happen soon, and in many worlds it would be better to do good soon rather than build a lot of skill first. (This obviously doesn’t apply if you are able to do good via your PhD as well.)
For many of us, we’re likely to really succeed at a PhD only if we are obsessed about it: an An advisee once said to me “Only do a PhD, if it’s something that you would do for free, in your free time, after work, on nights and weekends.”
A softer version of this: I think many of us are not calibrated about what attitudes and behaviours help to do a PhD—I certainly wasn’t! Before committing, try to come to grips with what you’re signing up for.
Finally, I subscribe to a PhD not being an end-in-itself, and instead a way to get some role/job/opportunity, which otherwise might be very unlikely without it. In impact-focussed spaces, I don’t think there are that many opportunities gate-kept by a PhD credential: academia/professorship, the “research scientist” title (but not necessarily the work), and maybe some policy positions. Orgs and managers who care about impact, care more about “can do you the work?” rather than “do you have the credential?”; could you get the legible skills to “do the work” in a paid job with better hours in fewer years, or do you have to do a PhD instead?
As an organization that strives to have “the values of Effective Altruism plus the inverse of the values of universities”, we don’t actually have an application process
What are your thoughts on pursuing a PhD compared to 3-4 more years of work experience? How much career capital is a formal PhD degree actually worth?
This answer might depend a lot on the context, so:
I have a degree in pure mathematics and that is also where I would potentially pursue a PhD. I have high grades, but not from a top university.
I am living in Germany and am willing, but not eager, to move to another country in order to maximise my impact.
I am considering Earning to Give as my most impactful option (though I am far from certain yet). If I do not pursue a PhD, my next step would most likely be trying to asses my fit for quantitative trading: https://80000hours.org/career-reviews/quantitative-trading/ (To make matters more complicated, it is mentioned that you can enter the field with graduate degrees, but some roles do require a PhD. So if you are knowledgeable in this area, some advice would be especially welcome.)
I have neither a concrete plan nor a scholarship for my potential PhD (yet) and would change my university anyways. So it might also be a consideration to try some jobs and internships and pursue a PhD later on if worthwhile. However I am under the impression that returning into academia is more difficult than staying there.
Hi Marc, thanks for the question.
Lots has been said about the value of PhDs:
Lewis Hammond gives advice here about doing PhDs
Rohin Shah talks a little about PhDs here in relation to AI safety work
Adam Gleave makes a positive case here for AI safety
[Caveat: having dropped out of a PhD myself, I might be biased against doing one.] I think our piece on doing PhDs mostly holds up, but I’d make a few updates away from doing one:
AI things might happen soon, and in many worlds it would be better to do good soon rather than build a lot of skill first. (This obviously doesn’t apply if you are able to do good via your PhD as well.)
For many of us, we’re likely to really succeed at a PhD only if we are obsessed about it: an An advisee once said to me “Only do a PhD, if it’s something that you would do for free, in your free time, after work, on nights and weekends.”
A softer version of this: I think many of us are not calibrated about what attitudes and behaviours help to do a PhD—I certainly wasn’t! Before committing, try to come to grips with what you’re signing up for.
Finally, I subscribe to a PhD not being an end-in-itself, and instead a way to get some role/job/opportunity, which otherwise might be very unlikely without it. In impact-focussed spaces, I don’t think there are that many opportunities gate-kept by a PhD credential: academia/professorship, the “research scientist” title (but not necessarily the work), and maybe some policy positions. Orgs and managers who care about impact, care more about “can do you the work?” rather than “do you have the credential?”; could you get the legible skills to “do the work” in a paid job with better hours in fewer years, or do you have to do a PhD instead?
Hope this helps! All the best.
If you know anyone who drops out of a PhD, consider suggesting they apply[1] for Effective Dropouts! You’re invited too!
As an organization that strives to have “the values of Effective Altruism plus the inverse of the values of universities”, we don’t actually have an application process