I don’t think the cases between asymmetric and symmetric views will necessarily turn out to be so … symmetric (:P), since, to start, they each have different requirements to satisfy to earn the names asymmetric and symmetric, and how bad a conclusion will look can depend on whether we’re dealing with negative or positive utilities or both. To be called symmetric, it should still satisfy Mere Addition, right?
Dropping continuity looks bad for everyone, in my view, so I won’t argue further on that one.
However, what are the most plausible symmetric theories which avoid the Very Repugnant Conclusion and are still continuous? To be symmetric, it should still accept Mere Addition, right? Arrhenius has an impossibility theorem for the VRC. It seems to me the only plausible option is to give up General Non-Extreme Priority. Does such a symmetric theory exist, without also violating Non-Elitism (like Sider’s Geometrism does)?
EDIT: I think I’ve thought of such a social welfare function. Do Geometrism or Moderate Trade-off Theory for the negative utilities (or whatever an asymmetric view might have done to prioritize the worst off), and then add the term σ(∑imax{0,ui}) for the rest, where σ is strictly continuous, increasing and bounded above.
Similarly, ‘value receptacle’-style critiques seem a red herring, as even if they are decisive for preference views over hedonic ones in general, they do not rule between ‘only thwarted preferences count’ and ‘satisfied preferences count too’ in particular.
Why are value receptacle objections stronger for preferences vs hedonism than for thwarted only vs satisfied too?
If it’s sometimes better to create new individuals than to help existing ones, then we are, at least in part, reduced to receptacles, because creating value by creating individuals instead of helping individuals puts value before individuals. It should matter that you have your preferences satisfied because you matter, but as value receptacles, it seems we’re just saying that it matters that there are more satisfied preferences. You might object that I’m saying that it matters that there are fewer satisfied preferences, but this is a consequence, not where I’m starting from; I start by rejecting the treatment of interest holders as value receptacles, through Only Actual Interests (and No Transfer).
Is it good to give someone a new preference just so that it can be satisfied, even at the cost of the preferences they would have had otherwise? How is convincing someone to really want a hotdog and then giving them one doing them a service if they had no desire for one in the first place (and it would satisfy no other interests of theirs)? Is it better for them even in the case where they don’t sacrifice other interests? Rather than doing what people want or we think they would want anyway, we would make them want things and do those for them instead. If preference satisfaction always counts in itself, then we’re paternalists. If it doesn’t always count but sometimes does, then we should look for other reasons, which is exactly what Only Actual Interests claims.
Of course, there’s the symmetric question: does preference thwarting (to whatever degree) always count against the existence of those preferences, and if it doesn’t, should we look for other reasons, too? I don’t find either answer implausible. For example, is a child worse off for having big but unrealistic dreams? I don’t think so, necessarily, but we might be able to explain this by referring to their other interests: dreaming big promotes optimism and wellbeing and prevents boredom, preventing the thwarting of more important interests. When we imagine the child dreaming vs not dreaming, we have not made all else equal. Could the same be true of not quite fully satisfied interests? I don’t rule out the possibility that the existence and satisfaction of some interests can promote the satisfaction of other interests. But if, they don’t get anything else out of their unsatisfied preferences, it’s not implausible that this would actually be worse, as a rule, if we have reasonable explanations for when it wouldn’t be worse.
I don’t think the cases between asymmetric and symmetric views will necessarily turn out to be so … symmetric (:P), since, to start, they each have different requirements to satisfy to earn the names asymmetric and symmetric, and how bad a conclusion will look can depend on whether we’re dealing with negative or positive utilities or both. To be called symmetric, it should still satisfy Mere Addition, right?
Dropping continuity looks bad for everyone, in my view, so I won’t argue further on that one.
However, what are the most plausible symmetric theories which avoid the Very Repugnant Conclusion and are still continuous? To be symmetric, it should still accept Mere Addition, right? Arrhenius has an impossibility theorem for the VRC. It seems to me the only plausible option is to give up General Non-Extreme Priority. Does such a symmetric theory exist, without also violating Non-Elitism (like Sider’s Geometrism does)?
EDIT: I think I’ve thought of such a social welfare function. Do Geometrism or Moderate Trade-off Theory for the negative utilities (or whatever an asymmetric view might have done to prioritize the worst off), and then add the term σ(∑imax{0,ui}) for the rest, where σ is strictly continuous, increasing and bounded above.
Why are value receptacle objections stronger for preferences vs hedonism than for thwarted only vs satisfied too?
If it’s sometimes better to create new individuals than to help existing ones, then we are, at least in part, reduced to receptacles, because creating value by creating individuals instead of helping individuals puts value before individuals. It should matter that you have your preferences satisfied because you matter, but as value receptacles, it seems we’re just saying that it matters that there are more satisfied preferences. You might object that I’m saying that it matters that there are fewer satisfied preferences, but this is a consequence, not where I’m starting from; I start by rejecting the treatment of interest holders as value receptacles, through Only Actual Interests (and No Transfer).
Is it good to give someone a new preference just so that it can be satisfied, even at the cost of the preferences they would have had otherwise? How is convincing someone to really want a hotdog and then giving them one doing them a service if they had no desire for one in the first place (and it would satisfy no other interests of theirs)? Is it better for them even in the case where they don’t sacrifice other interests? Rather than doing what people want or we think they would want anyway, we would make them want things and do those for them instead. If preference satisfaction always counts in itself, then we’re paternalists. If it doesn’t always count but sometimes does, then we should look for other reasons, which is exactly what Only Actual Interests claims.
Of course, there’s the symmetric question: does preference thwarting (to whatever degree) always count against the existence of those preferences, and if it doesn’t, should we look for other reasons, too? I don’t find either answer implausible. For example, is a child worse off for having big but unrealistic dreams? I don’t think so, necessarily, but we might be able to explain this by referring to their other interests: dreaming big promotes optimism and wellbeing and prevents boredom, preventing the thwarting of more important interests. When we imagine the child dreaming vs not dreaming, we have not made all else equal. Could the same be true of not quite fully satisfied interests? I don’t rule out the possibility that the existence and satisfaction of some interests can promote the satisfaction of other interests. But if, they don’t get anything else out of their unsatisfied preferences, it’s not implausible that this would actually be worse, as a rule, if we have reasonable explanations for when it wouldn’t be worse.